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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6422330" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>Umm, how is adding a paladin's mount to the game world not authorial control? I will never meet one unless I play a paladin (well, unless another paladin is riding one, but, that's not something I can acquire for my character is it?) and the second I DO play a paladin, that mount is added to the game world. How is that not the player editing world content? I play a paladin, a mount is added to the game world. I don't play a paladin, it's not.</p><p></p><p>And, if I choose not to go on the mount quest, does the mount still exist in the game world? </p><p></p><p>By choosing that quest, I've effectively dictated to the DM that I will go on a quest, which he will make for me, and at the end of that quest, should I prove successful, I get a mount. In what way is that not the player adding content to the game world? And, if it's purely an in-game thing, how do I know that I'm qualified for that quest? Is there a special ding that plays when I hit 5th level that tells me that I'm now eligible for a mount? Note, this isn't the same as simply casting a Find Familiar spell. This isn't anything the paladin character is doing. The player tells the DM, I want a mount now that I'm 5th level. At no point does the paladin actually have any control over this. There is no character resource to spend here.</p><p></p><p>I will grant that most of this lies on the DM's side of the screen. It's very primative. Look at the horrible Kender pockets mechanics and you'll see how bad these mechanics can be (the DM is expected to maintain a list of about 100 items that the kender has in his pockets and add and subtract to and from that list as the campaign goes on - a huge PITA for the DM). But, that's because the idea of dumping this sort of thing off on the players hadn't quite percolated yet. At least, not explicitly. But, it's a pretty small jump to go from, "The DM determines what's in your pockets" to "You spend this much time looking through your pockets and find anything you're looking for within reason that's worth less than 50GP". Because that's essentially the same thing.</p><p></p><p>The seeds are all there and they sprout out of the game well before any Forgisms are even a thought in anyone's head.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6422330, member: 22779"] Umm, how is adding a paladin's mount to the game world not authorial control? I will never meet one unless I play a paladin (well, unless another paladin is riding one, but, that's not something I can acquire for my character is it?) and the second I DO play a paladin, that mount is added to the game world. How is that not the player editing world content? I play a paladin, a mount is added to the game world. I don't play a paladin, it's not. And, if I choose not to go on the mount quest, does the mount still exist in the game world? By choosing that quest, I've effectively dictated to the DM that I will go on a quest, which he will make for me, and at the end of that quest, should I prove successful, I get a mount. In what way is that not the player adding content to the game world? And, if it's purely an in-game thing, how do I know that I'm qualified for that quest? Is there a special ding that plays when I hit 5th level that tells me that I'm now eligible for a mount? Note, this isn't the same as simply casting a Find Familiar spell. This isn't anything the paladin character is doing. The player tells the DM, I want a mount now that I'm 5th level. At no point does the paladin actually have any control over this. There is no character resource to spend here. I will grant that most of this lies on the DM's side of the screen. It's very primative. Look at the horrible Kender pockets mechanics and you'll see how bad these mechanics can be (the DM is expected to maintain a list of about 100 items that the kender has in his pockets and add and subtract to and from that list as the campaign goes on - a huge PITA for the DM). But, that's because the idea of dumping this sort of thing off on the players hadn't quite percolated yet. At least, not explicitly. But, it's a pretty small jump to go from, "The DM determines what's in your pockets" to "You spend this much time looking through your pockets and find anything you're looking for within reason that's worth less than 50GP". Because that's essentially the same thing. The seeds are all there and they sprout out of the game well before any Forgisms are even a thought in anyone's head. [/QUOTE]
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