Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6422683" data-attributes="member: 42582">It seeemed to me that many of those who criticised the idea of "roles" in 4e D&D were not familiar with Gygax's remarks on p 86 of his DMG:Experience points are merely an indicator of the character's progression towards greater proficiency in his or her chosen profession. UPWARD PROGRESS IS NEVER AUTOMATIC. . . . The gaining of sufficient experience points is necessary to indicate that the character is eligible to gain a level of experience, but the actua award is a matter for you, the DM, to decide. Consider the natural functions of each class of character. Consider also the professed alignment of each chracter. Briefly assess the performance of each character after an adventure. Did he or she perform basically in the character of his or her class? Were his or her actions in keeping with his or her professed alignment? . . . Clerics who refuse to help and heal or do not remain faithful to their deity, fighters who hang back from combat or attempt to steal, or fail to boldly lead, magic-users who seek to engage in melee or ingore magic items they could employ in crucial situations, thieves who boldly engage in frontal attacks or refrain from acquisition of an extra bit of treasure when the opportunity presents itself, "cautious" characters who do not pull their own weight - these are all clear example of a POOR rating.The average rating since last level gaind then determined the amount of training time required, in days and weeks, at a cost of 1500 gp per (current) level per week.However, I'm not sure that these are primarily a story element. I think they're intended primarily as a gamist element, in the sense that if you don't meet the challenges of the game in a way that accords with your chosen class and alignment, then you will be "punished" in the form of having to pay more money for training. Conversely, you can reduce the training costs by not only beating the dungeon, but by doing so in the way prescribed for your class and alignment.I think this is reinforced by the corresponding remarks in the PHB (pp 18, 106):Character class refers to the profession of the player character. The approach you wish to take to the game, how you believe you can most successfully meet the challenges which it poses, and which role you desire to play are dicated by character class (or multi-class). Clerics principally function as supportive . . . Fighters generally seek to engage in hand-to-hand combat  . . . Magic-users cannot expect to do wel in hand-to-hand combat, but they have a grat number of magic spells of offensive, defensive and informational nature. They use magic almost exclusively to solve problems posed by the game. . . . Thieves use cunning, nimbleness and stealth. . . . [C]leric's major aims are to use their spell abilities to aid during any given encounter, fighters aim to engage in combat, magic-users aim to cast spels, thieves aim to make gain by stealth, and monks aim to use their unusual talents to come to successful ends. If characters gain treasure by pursuit of their major aims, then they are generally entitled to a full share of earned experience points awarded by the DM.I think the idea is that, by choosing a certain role, you are helping to establish your own "success criteria" within the context of the game.By taking it in a story direction, I think a table is drifting away from what Gygax had in mind. The next logical step would be to change the XP rules (as 2nd ed AD&D, and then 4e, did!).</blockquote>

Verification