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Character play vs Player play
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<blockquote data-quote="Mark CMG" data-source="post: 6422960" data-attributes="member: 10479"><p>Apparently not so clear, as we at least agree that Streetwise is part of the character makeup but, regardless of how the GM adjudicates its usage, you apparently see it's usage as the player affecting the setting directly and I see its usage as the player affecting the setting through the character. I think that is the heart of our disagreement on this example and the main difference we have on what constitutes player authorial control over setting.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, his character said a business existed that didn't actually exist and which the player had no expectation under the game rules would exist. His player didn't say that a fictional business, that hadn't previously been part of the game world, was real and his character was an employee or owner, nor was the GM forced by the player nor obligated through some rule of player authorial control to add the idea of said business to his setting. Just because some GM, even one of the first GMs, did something that seemed similar to a storytelling game element doesn't mean it was part of the rules at that point in RPG development.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Naw, chocolate cake isn't a lime popsicle because chocolate cake has sugar and lime popsicles have sugar. No one has said that two types of games cannot share any of the same or similar elements. The crux of this discussion is that player authorial control over setting was not an integral part of (trad?) RPGs but rather players affected the setting through their characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I won't get sidetracked into what constitutes LARPing, and regardless of the validity of your point regarding LARPing being a progenitor of RPGs, I should point out that neither LARPing nor wargaming <strong>require</strong> player authorial control over setting to be honored by a GM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mark CMG, post: 6422960, member: 10479"] Apparently not so clear, as we at least agree that Streetwise is part of the character makeup but, regardless of how the GM adjudicates its usage, you apparently see it's usage as the player affecting the setting directly and I see its usage as the player affecting the setting through the character. I think that is the heart of our disagreement on this example and the main difference we have on what constitutes player authorial control over setting. So, his character said a business existed that didn't actually exist and which the player had no expectation under the game rules would exist. His player didn't say that a fictional business, that hadn't previously been part of the game world, was real and his character was an employee or owner, nor was the GM forced by the player nor obligated through some rule of player authorial control to add the idea of said business to his setting. Just because some GM, even one of the first GMs, did something that seemed similar to a storytelling game element doesn't mean it was part of the rules at that point in RPG development. Naw, chocolate cake isn't a lime popsicle because chocolate cake has sugar and lime popsicles have sugar. No one has said that two types of games cannot share any of the same or similar elements. The crux of this discussion is that player authorial control over setting was not an integral part of (trad?) RPGs but rather players affected the setting through their characters. I won't get sidetracked into what constitutes LARPing, and regardless of the validity of your point regarding LARPing being a progenitor of RPGs, I should point out that neither LARPing nor wargaming [b]require[/b] player authorial control over setting to be honored by a GM. [/QUOTE]
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