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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 6422973" data-attributes="member: 67338">the entire bluff does not work in a DM only world... that bluff only works in a world where the DM is ok with players coming up with silly plans. It is also the founder of this game and rpgs in general... so I belive that there is no way to separate there games from tradition, because they started the traditions.Story telling games grew out of RPGs... They took 1 part of RPGs and made it the most important part of there games (to different extents.) However the basic part of story telling games where in traditional RPGs from the beginning, or else what did they grow out of? Now both RPGs and Story telling games (and two types of larping) all grew from the base RPG/D&amp;D and they grew wide and far and now make up a huge spectrum each let alone toghater... but they all started as BD&amp;Dthe problem is in this example suger IS player authorial control... Suger is in a lot of things, including cake (Trad rpg)&nbsp;yes, wargameing was the start, but when Dave and Gary made a smaller game about taking on the role of one character instead of units, they DID create a game with a variable amount of player authorial control... and that game was the first rpg... D&amp;D</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 6422973, member: 67338"] the entire bluff does not work in a DM only world... that bluff only works in a world where the DM is ok with players coming up with silly plans. It is also the founder of this game and rpgs in general... so I belive that there is no way to separate there games from tradition, because they started the traditions. Story telling games grew out of RPGs... They took 1 part of RPGs and made it the most important part of there games (to different extents.) However the basic part of story telling games where in traditional RPGs from the beginning, or else what did they grow out of? Now both RPGs and Story telling games (and two types of larping) all grew from the base RPG/D&D and they grew wide and far and now make up a huge spectrum each let alone toghater... but they all started as BD&D the problem is in this example suger IS player authorial control... Suger is in a lot of things, including cake (Trad rpg) yes, wargameing was the start, but when Dave and Gary made a smaller game about taking on the role of one character instead of units, they DID create a game with a variable amount of player authorial control... and that game was the first rpg... D&D [/QUOTE]

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