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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6422983" data-attributes="member: 87792">The GM accepted that "The Balrog Times" was a plausible business within the game world.  Because the expectation was that if the player came up with a sufficiently entertaining idea that they would do so.The idea that the world is hardcoded rather than something that exists at the table between the group?  That came later.  All of you making things up you consider fun.What are rules?  It was certainly part of the unwritten rules.  Or do you think that only that which is in the text counts (in which case oD&D needs Chainmail for starters).Indeed.  But story elements are sugar.  A story is "an account of imaginary or real people and events told for entertainment." (first definition on google).Which of that doesn't hold?  There's no account, or you don't roleplay for entertainment? And this has absolutely nothing to do with story.I'd say you're talking about what I'd call "Entitled GM Games" - which are a subset of Trad RPGs.  In an Entitled GM Game the GM has the sole right and responsibility to determine the setting and anything the players are permitted to know about the setting must come through and be approved by the GM.  The characters have no knowledge of the world they live in that allows them to act with confidence unless such has first been approved by the GM.  They have no bounds of expertise that live anywhere except on their character sheet.  They do not live in their worlds so much as they have been inserted there as near-blank slates, having fallen through from another world; their knowledge of the world they live in is starkly limited.And in <a href="http://www.faterpg.com/dl/sotc-srd.html#fate-points" target="_blank">Spirit of the Century the GM has explicit veto over Fate Points being spent to make declarations</a>.  The same applies in <a href="http://fate-srd.com/fate-core/fate-points#declaring-a-story-detail" target="_blank">Fate Core</a>.  In fact the only RPGs I'm aware of where the GM doesn't have a veto over such things are GMless.  The difference is on expectation.  Whether the players are expected to contribute and it is expected that the world and setting are shared or whether it's purely owned by the GM.  Indeed that's a big part of why games that have GMs have them.The argument here is whether we have Entitled GMing and that it's the GM's world and the GM's story to which the players are graciously permitted to contribute, or whether the game belongs to the table as a whole - and while the GM has the final authority it is expected that they use this sparingly and the setting comes from the combined contributions of all the people in the game.</blockquote>

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