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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 6425559" data-attributes="member: 5143">The previous post was on the original topic, but to address the topic the thread has kind of become:There needs to be a mix of storytelling mechanics and simulation mechanics, IMHO to really have fun.I think players should have SOME input into the game world and the background.  However, I think that this input should be moderated by the DM and preferably done between sessions rather than during.For instance, I really like the players to suggest organizations, NPCs that have a relationship with them and possible reasons their character might be involved in the adventures.  However, I really see this as an extension of the principle that players have control over their own characters.  If their character's background requires an NPC to exist, by all means make them up.  If the player needs to have some event happen in history in order to make his character work, then make it up or at least ask the DM for an appropriate event that already exists in their world.  Sometimes that extends to other things as well, like saying "Hey, I used to be a member of the thieves guild in another city...do I have any contacts in this city?"However, this power should ALWAYS be phrased in the form of a question or at least should be submitted with the assumption that it is a request and it can be denied for any reason the DM feels like.  In the end, the DM has the final say on basically everything.I only get frustrated when players come up with something and then get angry when the DM says no to it.  The DM knows more about the storyline of the game than you do and could be saying no for any reason at all that you don't understand the reasoning behind.For instance, I literally had a player get angry at me when they tried to convince an NPC who was mind controlled by the bad guy to do the exact thing the enemy told him not to.  The PCs didn't KNOW he was mind controlled.  They just thought he was being unreasonable and I was being a stupid DM by railroading them and not allowing their die rolls to work when they OBVIOUSLY should.  Their logic was sound.  No one should be as stubborn as this NPC was being.  I even suggested "You're right...they ARE being rather overly stubborn about this."  Rather than say "Oh...wait...maybe something is going on that we don't understand", they instead just chose to get more angry at me for screwing them over.Basically, they'd settle for nothing less than me saying "The person is obviously mind controlled".  I instead like to give hints and let players figure things out on their own.</blockquote>

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