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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6425913" data-attributes="member: 22779">You're still missing the point.The point is not that AD&amp;D is a story game.&nbsp; It isn't and no one is claiming differently.The claim on the table is that no story game elements exist in early RPG's.&nbsp; That they were all added by DM's outside of the rules themselves.&nbsp; That you can remove the rule does not change the fact that these rules actually DO exist in early RPG's.&nbsp; It's irrelevant.Look, if you open your PHB to the section on Paladins, does it state that a Paladin get's a warhorse at 4th level?&nbsp; Yes it does.&nbsp; If you then turn to the DMG and turn to page XX, will you find further mechanics detailing the paladin's quest for a mount?&nbsp; Again, yes you will.Do these exist in the books?&nbsp; Yes, they do.&nbsp; Therefore, story game mechanics DO exist in the rules of early RPG's.&nbsp; Full stop.&nbsp; Can the DM remove these rules?&nbsp; Yup, no problem.&nbsp; But, that doesn't change their existnce.&nbsp; If I rule no Elves in my D&amp;D game, does that mean that elves cease to exist in D&amp;D?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6425913, member: 22779"] You're still missing the point. The point is not that AD&D is a story game. It isn't and no one is claiming differently. The claim on the table is that no story game elements exist in early RPG's. That they were all added by DM's outside of the rules themselves. That you can remove the rule does not change the fact that these rules actually DO exist in early RPG's. It's irrelevant. Look, if you open your PHB to the section on Paladins, does it state that a Paladin get's a warhorse at 4th level? Yes it does. If you then turn to the DMG and turn to page XX, will you find further mechanics detailing the paladin's quest for a mount? Again, yes you will. Do these exist in the books? Yes, they do. Therefore, story game mechanics DO exist in the rules of early RPG's. Full stop. Can the DM remove these rules? Yup, no problem. But, that doesn't change their existnce. If I rule no Elves in my D&D game, does that mean that elves cease to exist in D&D? [/QUOTE]

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