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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6427134" data-attributes="member: 87792">And you are mischaracterising how both skill and a Fate Point work.In Fate you can only use a Fate point to establish something through an aspect.&nbsp; They are using a Fate Point to establish something as true that is congruent with existing parts of the setting. What spending a Fate Point does is cuts off irritating games of 20 questions.&nbsp; Not actually true unless you use the tightest possible interpretation of the word skill.&nbsp; If a skill is &quot;Something that the character can do with mechanical representation&quot; then it applies also to aspects - and you need there to be an aspect before you can spend a Fate point to establish something.&nbsp; If you are using it in the narrow sense and a game (e.g. D&amp;D - any edition except 2E) doesn't have the engineering skill, your character de facto can't engineer.Alternatively it's written in exactly the way it was intended, the setting is assumed to not be mapped out by the GM in excrutiating detail, and the Realism camp that you belong to and Gygax railed against mostly took over in the 80s.Neither scenario sounds in any way reasonable to me and both sound as if there were out of game problems that were going on.&nbsp; In the Elminster case that's a deus ex machina attempted solution.&nbsp; Which means that the player wanted to duck the game almost entirely.&nbsp; And wtf?&nbsp; The game was badly off the rails at the time for whatever reason.&nbsp; And without more information about how the game broke I can't say what I'd have done.The Hovercraft scenario is something else, and it depends fundamentally on the nature of that character.&nbsp; In Fate, if their High Concept was something like &quot;Collector of Scavenged Tech&quot; then I'd allow them to spend a Fate point to have a Hovercraft in their collection.&nbsp; And an unpowered battlesuit if they want it (although getting the power to run it would be an adventure in itself).&nbsp; Likewise if they had a temporary aspect &quot;A Dragon's Horde of Tech Salvage&quot; and wanted to spend a Fate Point to establish that one part of that was a Hovercraft rather than me having to detail all the loot that would be fine.&nbsp; Especially as it's big, hard to hide, easy to steal, needs fuel, and is little more than a larger horse.&nbsp; That thing's both cool and going to cause them trouble.&nbsp; If not, I'd ask them if they know how much it costs and how to get fuel for one in Greyhawk.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6427134, member: 87792"] And you are mischaracterising how both skill and a Fate Point work. In Fate you can only use a Fate point to establish something [I]through an aspect[/I]. They are using a Fate Point to establish something as true [i]that is congruent with existing parts of the setting[/i]. What spending a Fate Point does is cuts off irritating games of 20 questions. Not actually true unless you use the tightest possible interpretation of the word skill. If a skill is "Something that the character can do with mechanical representation" then it applies also to aspects - and you need there to be an aspect before you can spend a Fate point to establish something. If you are using it in the narrow sense and a game (e.g. D&D - any edition except 2E) doesn't have the engineering skill, your character de facto can't engineer. Alternatively it's written in exactly the way it was intended, the setting is assumed to not be mapped out by the GM in excrutiating detail, and the Realism camp that you belong to and Gygax railed against mostly took over in the 80s. Neither scenario sounds in any way reasonable to me and both sound as if there were out of game problems that were going on. In the Elminster case that's a deus ex machina attempted solution. Which means that the player wanted to duck the game almost entirely. And wtf? The game was badly off the rails at the time for whatever reason. And without more information about how the game broke I can't say what I'd have done. The Hovercraft scenario is something else, and it depends fundamentally on the nature of that character. In Fate, if their High Concept was something like "Collector of Scavenged Tech" then I'd allow them to spend a Fate point to have a Hovercraft in their collection. And an unpowered battlesuit if they want it (although getting the power to run it would be an adventure in itself). Likewise if they had a temporary aspect "A Dragon's Horde of Tech Salvage" and wanted to spend a Fate Point to establish that one part of that was a Hovercraft rather than me having to detail all the loot that would be fine. Especially as it's big, hard to hide, easy to steal, needs fuel, and is little more than a larger horse. That thing's both cool and going to cause them trouble. If not, I'd ask them if they know how much it costs and how to get fuel for one in Greyhawk. [/QUOTE]

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