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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6428939" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I find that avoiding player side scene framing has costs as well as benefits. And the benefits massively outweigh the costs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When I'm scene framing as a player I'm imagining in my mind what the character is doing and how the world as I see it is behaving. This does not break me out of character at all and indeed requires a lot less internalisation than it does to reduce a combat to a d20 roll. You'll note that in my scene framing/fate point example I did not dictate any behaviours of the character I established other than that they were in the corner of a bar or random individuals at a certain type of bar.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>From what you've said of your style of GMing I'd say that that was almost a necessity. That you disconnect the PCs from their prior context and drop them in the world you have created for them to explore. With exploration being the primary goal. This is only a tiny subset of possible roleplaying (and IME the one that produces least emotional investment) - and it is literally the only one that works properly without player side scene framing.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If the GM is the sort that is running in their intensely detailed world, yes. This is not the only form of DMing and one that leads to an experience I find less alive and less intense than one with a messier and more chaotic world with more input.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Indeed. Your badass rogue can be the protagonist of a Michael Bay film rather than a Stephen Spielberg one.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That depends. If I know we're going to be at a party, I know my hypothetical brother is coming, and I know the host, then I can be fairly confident that my hypothetical brother will be either (a) in the corner of the living room or (b) in the kitchen by the time I arrive. Therefore if I'm looking for my hypothetical brother at a party those are the two places I look.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Therefore you don't scene frame that. On the other hand if we were in the party example, I'd be happy scene framing "I look for my brother. Finding him in the kitchen, pontificating about Derrida to another hipster I..." Because I have a <em>realistic</em> expectation that they will be there. If the GM then steps in and vetos, I'll feel that something's up. Because my hypothetical brother who I've hypothetically known for quarter of a century or more is not behaving the way they normally do. My next step if the GM throws in a veto will be to text that brother something inconsequential to check if they are OK.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And <em>this is where Story Games fix things</em>. The structure of the rules themselves, whether the hardcoded pathway of Montsegur 1244 or the much looser Season Advances/Penultimate Episodes of Monsterhearts or tight theme of My Life With Master (or pick another) means that there's a limited time, you get callbacks, and most things that happened turn out to be important. The discipline needs to come from somewhere - but it absolutely does not need to be because the GM keeps everything on track. And yes, in a Storygame plot threads do get abandoned. But the overarching plot can't be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is untrue. Banning scene framing is like insisting that the Sub never ever under any circumstance gets to choose their outfit and start a scene by being provocative. A direct and literal translation. And frankly I'm not interested in Total Power Exchange.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Once again I'm not interested in TPE. And I am interested in communication. The way that I relate to a sub (or much more rarely a dom) is on a person by person basis and on a scene by scene basis. Because I'm interested in them as people rather than reducing them to their role. And if this involves a scene that's pulled out of my hat involving two pencils, two rubber bands, and a coin as toys because they were what I happened to spot on the sub's desk rather than an intricate and detailed plan every time (not that there's anything wrong with intricate and detailed plans - I just can't be bothered to come up with them every time) then that's more fun and more real both ways.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>On the other hand not all uses of Fate Point require that at all. You can if you want fluff all your Fate Points as willpower.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6428939, member: 87792"] I find that avoiding player side scene framing has costs as well as benefits. And the benefits massively outweigh the costs. When I'm scene framing as a player I'm imagining in my mind what the character is doing and how the world as I see it is behaving. This does not break me out of character at all and indeed requires a lot less internalisation than it does to reduce a combat to a d20 roll. You'll note that in my scene framing/fate point example I did not dictate any behaviours of the character I established other than that they were in the corner of a bar or random individuals at a certain type of bar. From what you've said of your style of GMing I'd say that that was almost a necessity. That you disconnect the PCs from their prior context and drop them in the world you have created for them to explore. With exploration being the primary goal. This is only a tiny subset of possible roleplaying (and IME the one that produces least emotional investment) - and it is literally the only one that works properly without player side scene framing. If the GM is the sort that is running in their intensely detailed world, yes. This is not the only form of DMing and one that leads to an experience I find less alive and less intense than one with a messier and more chaotic world with more input. Indeed. Your badass rogue can be the protagonist of a Michael Bay film rather than a Stephen Spielberg one. That depends. If I know we're going to be at a party, I know my hypothetical brother is coming, and I know the host, then I can be fairly confident that my hypothetical brother will be either (a) in the corner of the living room or (b) in the kitchen by the time I arrive. Therefore if I'm looking for my hypothetical brother at a party those are the two places I look. Therefore you don't scene frame that. On the other hand if we were in the party example, I'd be happy scene framing "I look for my brother. Finding him in the kitchen, pontificating about Derrida to another hipster I..." Because I have a [I]realistic[/I] expectation that they will be there. If the GM then steps in and vetos, I'll feel that something's up. Because my hypothetical brother who I've hypothetically known for quarter of a century or more is not behaving the way they normally do. My next step if the GM throws in a veto will be to text that brother something inconsequential to check if they are OK. And [I]this is where Story Games fix things[/I]. The structure of the rules themselves, whether the hardcoded pathway of Montsegur 1244 or the much looser Season Advances/Penultimate Episodes of Monsterhearts or tight theme of My Life With Master (or pick another) means that there's a limited time, you get callbacks, and most things that happened turn out to be important. The discipline needs to come from somewhere - but it absolutely does not need to be because the GM keeps everything on track. And yes, in a Storygame plot threads do get abandoned. But the overarching plot can't be. This is untrue. Banning scene framing is like insisting that the Sub never ever under any circumstance gets to choose their outfit and start a scene by being provocative. A direct and literal translation. And frankly I'm not interested in Total Power Exchange. Once again I'm not interested in TPE. And I am interested in communication. The way that I relate to a sub (or much more rarely a dom) is on a person by person basis and on a scene by scene basis. Because I'm interested in them as people rather than reducing them to their role. And if this involves a scene that's pulled out of my hat involving two pencils, two rubber bands, and a coin as toys because they were what I happened to spot on the sub's desk rather than an intricate and detailed plan every time (not that there's anything wrong with intricate and detailed plans - I just can't be bothered to come up with them every time) then that's more fun and more real both ways. On the other hand not all uses of Fate Point require that at all. You can if you want fluff all your Fate Points as willpower. [/QUOTE]
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