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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6437336" data-attributes="member: 22779">That's not the point though.&nbsp; The DM has not decided to put those boxes there.&nbsp; The only, reason that the boxes have come up is because the player has asked if they are there.&nbsp; Now, the DM can certainly say no.&nbsp; Fair enough.&nbsp; Even in most story telling games, the DM can say no as well.&nbsp; But, the only, single, solitary reason that the boxes exist in the game is because the player put them there, not the DM.That's player authorship.&nbsp; In your example of the player declaring Elminister is in the alley, the player placed an NPC in the alley to help them.&nbsp; Now, you modified that NPC to fit better with the game, fair enough, but, the fact that ANY NPC was in that alley was because of the player.&nbsp; If that player had not said that, then there would not have been an NPC in that alley, full stop.If the player had not said anything about a beard, there would be no beard.&nbsp; If the player had said nothing about boxes, there would be no boxes.&nbsp; If the player does not choose to initiate a warhorse quest, there is no warhorse.&nbsp; You, and others in this thread, seem to have a strange definition of player authorship which is limited to only examples where the player cannot be over ridden.&nbsp; Although, in the paladin example, where the player specifically can't be overridden, it's no longer the player initiating anything, but simply &quot;Playing a character&quot;.&nbsp; Somehow, my paladin now has the ability to create living beings, and living beings that want to test him as well.&nbsp; That's one hell of a power for a 4th level paladin.But, let me be absolutely clear, the fact that the DM can over ride the player does not, in any way, change the fact that these are all very clear, and very acceptable at the majority of tables, examples of player authorship.&nbsp; Ad hoc as they may be, and certainly not codified the way later games come to be, but, still very clearly player authorship.If it's not player authorship, then how did those boxes get placed in that alley?&nbsp; The DM didn't put them there, because he doesn't know if there are boxes in the alley when the player asks.&nbsp; So, who put the boxes there?&nbsp; The player asks, the DM says yes.&nbsp; Who put the boxes in that alley?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6437336, member: 22779"] That's not the point though. The DM has not decided to put those boxes there. The only, reason that the boxes have come up is because the player has asked if they are there. Now, the DM can certainly say no. Fair enough. Even in most story telling games, the DM can say no as well. But, the only, single, solitary reason that the boxes exist in the game is because the player put them there, not the DM. That's player authorship. In your example of the player declaring Elminister is in the alley, the player placed an NPC in the alley to help them. Now, you modified that NPC to fit better with the game, fair enough, but, the fact that ANY NPC was in that alley was because of the player. If that player had not said that, then there would not have been an NPC in that alley, full stop. If the player had not said anything about a beard, there would be no beard. If the player had said nothing about boxes, there would be no boxes. If the player does not choose to initiate a warhorse quest, there is no warhorse. You, and others in this thread, seem to have a strange definition of player authorship which is limited to only examples where the player cannot be over ridden. Although, in the paladin example, where the player specifically [i]can't[/i] be overridden, it's no longer the player initiating anything, but simply "Playing a character". Somehow, my paladin now has the ability to create living beings, and living beings that want to test him as well. That's one hell of a power for a 4th level paladin. But, let me be absolutely clear, the fact that the DM can over ride the player does not, in any way, change the fact that these are all very clear, and very acceptable at the majority of tables, examples of player authorship. Ad hoc as they may be, and certainly not codified the way later games come to be, but, still very clearly player authorship. If it's not player authorship, then how did those boxes get placed in that alley? The DM didn't put them there, because he doesn't know if there are boxes in the alley when the player asks. So, who put the boxes there? The player asks, the DM says yes. Who put the boxes in that alley? [/QUOTE]

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