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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6439830" data-attributes="member: 22779">So that's the distinction we're making here?  Anything that the character is unaware of is a player resource?  So, elven secret door detection is a player resource?  Dwarves saving throw bonuses?   Any number of mechanics that are pretty much entirely meta-level bonuses that the character should have no real knowledge of?  After all, what's the difference between "I can find secret doors pretty easily" and "I'm very lucky and lucky things happen to me"? And, thinking about this, while the specific action of Fate Points might be hidden from the character, the justifications for them certainly aren't.  Take the following old chestnut - the players want to see the king and the chamberlain is having none of it.  They try to persuade the chamberlain, but, no go.  The chamberlain, for whatever reason, isn't going to let them see the king.D&D:  My caster character casts Suggestion and we get to see the king.Fate:  My character has the aspect of "Student of Magic" and casts a spell to change the mind of the chamberlain and we get to see the king.What's the difference here?  In the first case, we strike off that memorized spell (maybe, since Bards could also do suggestion without using a specific spell) and move on.  In the latter case, we spend a Fate point, and move on.  In both cases we spend character resources and do the exact same thing.Or are you trying to argue that only Vancian casting counts as role playing?  What about games with spell points or at-will casting?</blockquote>

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