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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6441946" data-attributes="member: 2011">Actually, depending on table, yes it does.For a table that allows this style of play, the players are entitled.For a table that does not allow this style of play, the players are in fact NOT entitled.And fun happens at both tables. Your premise here is invalid at some tables.There is nothing wrong with playing this way. It's just not a play style that is automatically allowed at all tables.It depends. As a general rule, what you state here is fine. The problem comes in when the DM forgets something (DMs have a lot on their plates) and the boxes in the alleyway change the entire scenario such that it's no longer what the DM envisioned. At the point in time that the player mentioned the boxes, the DM did not notice the problem and just went with it. Suddenly, this alteration of the world (which, as you state, was there the entire time) is suddenly nonsensical because the DM makes a mistake.The players do not know everything that is going on. The DM does. As a general rule most of the time, the DM will not introduce things that are inconsistent with what is going on. The players might. Of course, if the DM notices that, no problem. The DM just says no. The problem comes in when the DM is busy and does not notice.Actually, it's a huge leap from &quot;the players control their PCs&quot; to &quot;the player control their PCs and external world events and objects&quot;.Both styles are fun to play for different people, but it's really a big dot deal for some tables to go from one style to the other. It might not be a big deal for you, but it is a big deal for others (like me).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6441946, member: 2011"] Actually, depending on table, yes it does. For a table that allows this style of play, the players are entitled. For a table that does not allow this style of play, the players are in fact NOT entitled. And fun happens at both tables. Your premise here is invalid at some tables. There is nothing wrong with playing this way. It's just not a play style that is automatically allowed at all tables. It depends. As a general rule, what you state here is fine. The problem comes in when the DM forgets something (DMs have a lot on their plates) and the boxes in the alleyway change the entire scenario such that it's no longer what the DM envisioned. At the point in time that the player mentioned the boxes, the DM did not notice the problem and just went with it. Suddenly, this alteration of the world (which, as you state, was there the entire time) is suddenly nonsensical because the DM makes a mistake. The players do not know everything that is going on. The DM does. As a general rule most of the time, the DM will not introduce things that are inconsistent with what is going on. The players might. Of course, if the DM notices that, no problem. The DM just says no. The problem comes in when the DM is busy and does not notice. Actually, it's a huge leap from "the players control their PCs" to "the player control their PCs and external world events and objects". Both styles are fun to play for different people, but it's really a big dot deal for some tables to go from one style to the other. It might not be a big deal for you, but it is a big deal for others (like me). [/QUOTE]

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