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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 6446316" data-attributes="member: 29398">But neither "succeed" nor "fail" includes "avoid", which I'll touch on below...Interesting take; as in everything before 4e I've always seen xp as a *character* reward, given via the player.  This ties into my long-held view that a character is still part of the party even if the player is absent that session, and still earns xp etc.  Further, characters only get xp for those things in which they actually participate - did you take part in killing those Orcs?  Yes?  Good, you'll get a share of the xp.  Did you run and hide from the Orcs?  Yes?  Sorry, no xp for you.This goes against what 3e suggests (everyone gets xp for everything, regardless) and what 4e seems to assume (the same thing).In the same vein, some DMs give out character xp for things done by the player e.g. bringing snacks to the game or writing a detailed backstory.  Bleah!At a frightening pace, I might add.  Level advance should be a side-effect of play, not the main focus of it.If the teleport got them around a known* obstacle that would otherwise have required a skill challenge they should get the xp for it. (or, in my view, the xp should be divided between the character(s) who thought of the teleport idea and the character who cast it)But let's take a more basic example.  Let's say that written into a given adventure is this skill challenge: a cliff the party needs to climb in order to reach the adventure site at the top.  They don't have flight or any other magical means of help.  They can succeed, and climb up; or they can fail, and fall.  Or they can avoid it completely by finding another way around and coming at the adventure from another direction!  This is what should earn the same xp as beating the cliff.* - bypassing something without ever knowing of its existence doesn't count. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />This is a mechanic which for a bunch of reasons I don't like at all.  First, if levelling is by DM handwave either a) everyone levels at the same time whether they deserve to or not, or b) the DM will inevitably end up (rightly or wrongly) being accused of playing favourites.  It also goes against having a party with varying levels in it, which in a system that has permanent level loss along with occasional items that bestow levels is going to happen.  And when it does, an across-the-board handwave system means the lower levels will never catch up to the higher.  In a standard J-curve advancement system the lower levels will slowly catch up in number, if not in raw xp; as in a 4th-level chasing a 7th-level; by the time the 7th gets to 8th the 4th will probably be 7th.And, it goes against characters being rewarded for what they actually do in the game.  If character A is always sticking her nose in and taking risks in order to move things forward she should be better rewarded *by the game* than character B whose only concern is his own safety and who hides at the first sign of danger.Lan-"when in doubt, charge"-efan</blockquote>

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