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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6447896" data-attributes="member: 22779">You keep making statements without providing any actual evidence.  How is the DM not obligated?  The player uses the paladin's power to call a warhorse.  Where in the rules does it say, "grant this unless you don't feel like it"?  I see a section in the PHB that says that the horse will be granted when you reach the appropriate level.  I see a section in the DMG that talks about how the DM should make those things available.  What I don't see is any section that says, "Well, if you don't feel like granting the player his warhorse, you don't have to."  But, even if there was such a passage, the existence of a DM veto does not, in any way, preclude something from being player authorial control.  Again, we've established that numerous games which do allow for pretty direct player authorial control are still subject to DM veto.  Adventure tailoring IS a form of player authorial control when the tailored adventure only exists at the behest of the player.  There is no conflation here.  Look, it's simple.  The player tells the DM that he wants his horse.  The DM then creates a (presumably short) scenario for the character, tailored to the level of that character, wherein the player gets his horse.  Done and done.  The ONLY reason that this adventure, these NPC's, these challenges and this horse exists is because the character starts the ball rolling.  And the player knows, before even setting out on the adventure, that his prize is at the end of that adventure, AND that this adventure is specifically tailored for his PC.  Again, the only thing the player didn't write was the actual adversary.  So, you can keep denying it all you like, but, until you can actually back things up with something resembling an actual fact, we're done here.  You can keep denying things all you like, but, the truth is, most of the story gaming elements that you claim only appear later in the development of D&D, appear pretty darn early in the game.  I'm pretty sure that if I started trawling through the old The Dragon magazines, I'd find more and more examples of the same thing.  It's not like Weiss and Hickman were playing Dragonlance in the 80's.  They started with AD&D, in the very early days.  And it's not like they magically conjured these things out of thin air.  Trad games contain a fair number of story game elements right from the get go.  True story games simply emphasize what was already there, not create anything really new.</blockquote>

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