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Character play vs Player play
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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 6451655" data-attributes="member: 6779310"><p>AD&D didn't do that. You have never shown a bit of Gygaxian text saying the could change the setting other than through their character's actions and abilities. The closest to that is via use of wishes, and that's still through the character.</p><p></p><p>Some AD&D groups did, but that is going beyond the rules; Gygax's open derision of letting players dictate anything other than their own character's <em>attempts</em> is plain to see in the AD&D DMG and in the SR and early Dragon issues. The use of hirelings is and troops, even in 0E, always a matter of giving orders and the GM <u>usually</u> having them followed, not a player fiat of describing what they do.</p><p></p><p>In the much abused example of the boxes in the alley... if the player had simply stated he was climbing the boxes, I suspect Gygax would have been rather dismissive, along the lines of, "Boxes? What boxes? <em>There are no boxes! </em>Climb Sheer Surfaces roll!" Whereas if they asked if there were boxes he would likely have added them. (His attitude towards player <em>authority</em> in his writing was pretty negative even recently; his reaction to player creativity when not conflated with authority was usually far more open.)</p><p></p><p>And you're conflating the advice to reward creativity with authority; they are not the same, and the game didn't have player <u>authority</u> over anything but the character.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 6451655, member: 6779310"] AD&D didn't do that. You have never shown a bit of Gygaxian text saying the could change the setting other than through their character's actions and abilities. The closest to that is via use of wishes, and that's still through the character. Some AD&D groups did, but that is going beyond the rules; Gygax's open derision of letting players dictate anything other than their own character's [I]attempts[/I] is plain to see in the AD&D DMG and in the SR and early Dragon issues. The use of hirelings is and troops, even in 0E, always a matter of giving orders and the GM [U]usually[/U] having them followed, not a player fiat of describing what they do. In the much abused example of the boxes in the alley... if the player had simply stated he was climbing the boxes, I suspect Gygax would have been rather dismissive, along the lines of, "Boxes? What boxes? [I]There are no boxes! [/I]Climb Sheer Surfaces roll!" Whereas if they asked if there were boxes he would likely have added them. (His attitude towards player [I]authority[/I] in his writing was pretty negative even recently; his reaction to player creativity when not conflated with authority was usually far more open.) And you're conflating the advice to reward creativity with authority; they are not the same, and the game didn't have player [U]authority[/U] over anything but the character. [/QUOTE]
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Character play vs Player play
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