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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6452659" data-attributes="member: 22779">That's a pretty fine line to draw though.  I use Presdidgitation to create a bunch of  balls and start juggling, just for giggles.  I had a player who would consistently try to be able to pull random crap out of his bag - I had a table of some 300 results for it.  Is it a player goal?  Is it a character goal?  The two are hardly incompatible.OTOH, it's pretty easy to think that a young male character being able to turn invisible and sneak into the women's showers actually would be an in-character fantasy for a LOT of PC's.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Yet, funnily enough, that's precisely what you get with followers.  Maybe not a thousand year history, but, an entire organization (remember, 1e followers could number in the hundreds) that likely should come with some sort of history.  I build my castle/church/whatever, and these guys just sort of turn up.  Do they actually exist in the game world before i build my castle?  Not really - at least, I've never heard of a DM having you meet your future followers beforehand.  And there's certainly nothing in the DMG or PHB to indicate that you should.  If you build it, they will come.  is that a player goal or a character goal?  Does the character actually know that these followers will appear?  How?  There's certainly no reason I can't build a castle at any level.  But, for some reason, completely unknown to the character (unless you go by the idea that level has an in-game reality), if I kill enough orcs and steal just enough treasure, dozens, if not hundreds of dudes are going to show up and obey me unto death.There's a fair degree of player authorship involved here.  Would any DM have a problem with the player detailing his own followers, so long as he kept to the restrictions?  If I wanted my followers to come from a specific region, would a DM have a problem with that?  On and on.</blockquote>

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