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<blockquote data-quote="Kordeth" data-source="post: 4237221" data-attributes="member: 5036">One thing I think people need to get away from in 4E is the old &quot;how hard is it for X character to hit himself?&quot; test. PCs are designed to hit monsters, and monsters to hit PCs, and that's a far better comparison.For example, this dragonborn needs a 12 or better to hit the level 16 Artillery Ice Arcon Hailscourge. A 17 or better hits the Rimehammer, a level 19 soldier (the monster type that generally has high Defenses). For a Defender who, frankly, doesn't seem especially optimized for accuracy (she only has a 20 Str at 15th level, something a 1st-level Dragonborn could start with and could have jacked up to 24; she has no Weapon Focus or equivalent, etc), I don't really see the problem.The Dragonborn paladin dishes out 1d8+8 on a basic attack, for an average of 12.5. Compared to the 120 hp of the 16th level Ice Archon, that means the paladin smites it dead in 10 basic attacks. Given her 45% chance of hitting, she could still drop the Hailscourge in just over 21 rounds, on average. That's with no powers, no allies, and assuming straight average.Personally, I think a free attack that knocks off 10% of a monster's hp on average is still plenty useful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kordeth, post: 4237221, member: 5036"] One thing I think people need to get away from in 4E is the old "how hard is it for X character to hit himself?" test. PCs are designed to hit monsters, and monsters to hit PCs, and that's a far better comparison. For example, this dragonborn needs a 12 or better to hit the level 16 Artillery Ice Arcon Hailscourge. A 17 or better hits the Rimehammer, a level 19 soldier (the monster type that generally has high Defenses). For a Defender who, frankly, doesn't seem especially optimized for accuracy (she only has a 20 Str at 15th level, something a 1st-level Dragonborn could start with and could have jacked up to 24; she has no Weapon Focus or equivalent, etc), I don't really see the problem. The Dragonborn paladin dishes out 1d8+8 on a basic attack, for an average of 12.5. Compared to the 120 hp of the 16th level Ice Archon, that means the paladin smites it dead in 10 basic attacks. Given her 45% chance of hitting, she could still drop the Hailscourge in just over 21 rounds, on average. That's with [i]no[/i] powers, [i]no[/i] allies, and assuming straight average. Personally, I think a free attack that knocks off 10% of a monster's hp on average is still plenty useful. [/QUOTE]

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