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<blockquote data-quote="shoak1" data-source="post: 6933674" data-attributes="member: 54380">To many of us, it IS about winning/losing, killing monsters, leveling up, and getting loot.&nbsp; Always has been - at least to me and many others, since the 70s.&nbsp; D and D was not conceived as a pure RPG.&nbsp; It began as a miniatures game, then meandered around, came back to being a miniatures game (3.5), went into leveling up/power gaming mode in 4.0, and now, in this brief interlude in history, is absolutely owned by RPGers who seem intent on throwing out the history books and re-defining D and D as a pure RPG.&nbsp; &nbsp; Power gaming, not role-playing, is the dominant play style in the industry now.&nbsp;&nbsp; What defines a D and D character to me and everyone I know?&nbsp; Stats 80% and fluff (personality, background, blah, blah, blah) 20%.&nbsp; The gamers I know want to throw away their old character and make a new one if they find out they screwed up their &quot;build.&quot;&nbsp; They want to kill monsters (on a 1&quot; grid using rigid combat rules), get loot, level up, buy cool stuff, and go out and do it again.&nbsp; Their goal is to win. And when some bozo comes in and makes a wizard w/18 STR, or some knucklehead pally decides he wants to wear leather armor and ride around on a giant spider he names Celeste (true story), my other players quickly tire of playing w/him. Why?&nbsp; Because his weak _ss build made the party WIPE (which means &quot;lose&quot; to a power gamer) AGAINST THAT DRAGON !!!!!!!!So sure, go ahead and keep insisting (while your play style sits atop the D and D throne) that D and D is a straight RPG.&nbsp; Just remember the Vegas odds on D and D stopping at 5 editions is about....[calculating]....... 0% <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="shoak1, post: 6933674, member: 54380"] To many of us, it IS about winning/losing, killing monsters, leveling up, and getting loot. Always has been - at least to me and many others, since the 70s. D and D was not conceived as a pure RPG. It began as a miniatures game, then meandered around, came back to being a miniatures game (3.5), went into leveling up/power gaming mode in 4.0, and now, [I]in this brief interlude in history[/I], is absolutely owned by RPGers who seem intent on throwing out the history books and re-defining D and D as a pure RPG. Power gaming, not role-playing, is the dominant play style in the industry now. What defines a D and D character to me and everyone I know? Stats 80% and fluff (personality, background, blah, blah, blah) 20%. The gamers I know want to throw away their old character and make a new one if they find out they screwed up their "build." They want to kill monsters (on a 1" grid using rigid combat rules), get loot, level up, buy cool stuff, and go out and do it again. Their goal is to [U]win[/U]. And when some bozo comes in and makes a wizard w/18 STR, or some knucklehead pally decides he wants to wear leather armor and ride around on a giant spider he names Celeste (true story), my other players quickly tire of playing w/him. Why? Because his weak _ss build made the party WIPE (which means "lose" to a power gamer) AGAINST THAT DRAGON !!!!!!!! So sure, go ahead and keep insisting (while your play style sits atop the D and D throne) that D and D is a straight RPG. Just remember the Vegas odds on D and D stopping at 5 editions is about....[calculating]....... 0% :) [/QUOTE]

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