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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kkoie" data-source="post: 766264" data-attributes="member: 1160">Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad character, or bad role playing, or bad DM?There in lies the problem with your point of view and my point of view.  From where you are sitting, your calling it punishment, as if the DM were pulling out his paddle and giving the player a few whacks on the butt because he did bad.From my pov, it's not punishment at all, if anything, its good roleplaying on the DMs part.  He has a character to deal with who not only has a low charisma, but has no social skills.  None... I had a player with the same situation, who also had an 8 intelligence.  He eventually learned that if he wants to buy any major item, he either has to depend on other players to buy them or make them, if he didn't want to get screwed.When a character sucks at combat, he isn't being punished.  He's simply getting his butt kicked if he tries to play the situation like a combat junkie would.The same thing goes for the combat junkie, he isn't getting punished by paying more for high profile items, he simply is not as skilled as the charismatic characters are when it comes to haggling a good price.But we (we as in those DMs who agree with DocM's pov) ARE using charisma for charisma related things.  When you are trying to haggle a good price, isn't that using your ability to influence others?  And isn't that ability charisma related??</blockquote>