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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Runestar" data-source="post: 4448169" data-attributes="member: 72317">When I say suck, I mean compared to the other PCs. It is not really a measure of how strong or weak you are in a vacuum, but rather, how strong/weak you actually are relative to the rest of the party. So if a 1st lv dragonborn has a +14 intimidate check while the human fighter has +10, the latter's intimidate check sucks with respect to the dragonborn.Unless I am sorely mistaken, there is currently little incentive in 4e for duplication of skills. For example, in a skill challenge, the one making each respective skill check will automatically be the one with the highest skill rating in that area, with the rest utilizing the aid-another option. As such, you don't need or want 2 PCs with "sub-par" values in the same skill, you just require 1 with a really good score. Thus, I would sooner take a dragonborn with say, +16 intimidate and a fighter with +0, rather than a dragonborn with +13 and the fighter with +12. You get more bang for your buck by having the fighter concentrate in a skill which no one else in the party excels in.But in all honesty, I doubt any DM is ever going to allow the subject of enemy surrendering be subject to something as whimsical as die rolling. It won't really matter how high or low your check is, the DM is probably still going to implement all sorts of ad-hoc modifiers and have the enemy surrender only if he feels that it is integral to the plot. This means that if need be, the DM can have Orcus surrender to the party even if nobody pumped intimidate, while conversely, a PC with a tricked out intimidate score still can't cowl a goblin if the DM doesn't want him to. That aspect of intimidate is just that badly conceptualized, IMO.It is not so much that he can't have it, but rather that he can have it while the dragonborn is not allowed access to it. I can also say that the fighter likely won't really want it anyways, prefering to get a benefit which synergizes better with his strengths. All other things equal, my dragonborn warlord can probably rationalize having the same background as well as the human fighter can, but in the end, he is going to have to settle for another background he may not want, and see the background which he desires go to another player.Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the rationale and merits behind you ruling the way you did (to preserve game balance), but that does not necessarily mean that I accept it, because I still find the concept a little hard to swallow. I can't quite put it into words, but here is an analogy I can think of.Lets say that in a group of runners, you have put in the most effort and trained the hardest, and it shows in you having the best timing. But then one day, the coach makes an announcement that everyone else will be having 20 seconds shaved off their time (for whatever reason, I dunno) except you, reason being that you are too good, and it would not do for you to have an even better timing than before. Though after the revision, you are still the fastest (yes, you are that good), but the lead between you and the rest has now been lessened, so you no longer get that same sense of satisfaction. I dunno...maybe I am approaching this with the wrong mentality? <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" /></blockquote>

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