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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 3217750" data-attributes="member: 141">The erinyes is quite a catch!&nbsp; The increased Strength bonus alone almost makes up for the LA, the Constitution bonus means that the creature is soon ahead in hit points, +8 natural armor is nothing to sneeze at- flight, immunities, resistances, teleportation and telepathy are all worth noting, and true seeing is just superb. I'm wondering if the LA might be too low.v5 of UK's IH appendix lists numbers that we can interpret as giving a creature's ECL.&nbsp; With three caveats; First, when he wrote v5 he thought that a feat was worth 1/5 of an ECL- he now thinks it is more like 1/6.&nbsp; And so all the numbers have to be multiplied by 5/6.&nbsp; Furthermore, the ECL is for the creature as they are in the book- with no equipment to speak of.&nbsp; Giving them PC-level equipment means you have to multiply the numbers by 3/2. Finally, many monsters have had their CR reduced because of something UK calls &quot;the Golden Rule&quot;Obviously, when we add massive class levels to a base creature, the golden rule doesn't apply.&nbsp; Combining these considerations, the appropriate base ECL for a monster with lots of class levels and PC treasure will be determined by multiplying the first value listed in the table by 1.25.&nbsp; For an erinyes it will be 18.72125 x 1.25 = 23 (rounding down).&nbsp; Using the MM's LA, you'd think an erinyes should have an ECL of 16; this underestimates its power by 7 full levels.&nbsp; Which means the character you describe here is more like a 45th level character than a 40th level character.&nbsp; (He doesn't have the equipment for a 47th level character, so I'll drop him a few levels).A half-fiend pixie has an ECL of 18 + class levels, however, provided that at least 20 HD are added.&nbsp; A lot more than the +8 that you get using the MM's numbers (+4 for being a pixie, +4 for being a half-fiend).This method doesn't help much if the base creature is a fire giant; it indicates a fire giant should be ECL 20, versus ECL 19 according to the MM.&nbsp; No big difference.&nbsp; But I'm thinking that the reason why many monstrous creatures appear unbalanced is not so much because the buff items are undercosted, but because some of the LAs are undercosted.&nbsp; Plus DevCrit might be broken.Which is not to say that we are pricing equipment too cheaply- that may very well be the case.&nbsp; But more evidence is needed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 3217750, member: 141"] The erinyes is quite a catch! The increased Strength bonus alone almost makes up for the LA, the Constitution bonus means that the creature is soon ahead in hit points, +8 natural armor is nothing to sneeze at- flight, immunities, resistances, teleportation and telepathy are all worth noting, and [i]true seeing[/i] is just superb. I'm wondering if the LA might be too low. v5 of UK's IH appendix lists numbers that we can interpret as giving a creature's ECL. With three caveats; First, when he wrote v5 he thought that a feat was worth 1/5 of an ECL- he now thinks it is more like 1/6. And so all the numbers have to be multiplied by 5/6. Furthermore, the ECL is for the creature as they are in the book- with no equipment to speak of. Giving them PC-level equipment means you have to multiply the numbers by 3/2. Finally, many monsters have had their CR reduced because of something UK calls "the Golden Rule" Obviously, when we add massive class levels to a base creature, the golden rule doesn't apply. Combining these considerations, the appropriate base ECL for a monster with lots of class levels and PC treasure will be determined by multiplying the first value listed in the table by 1.25. For an erinyes it will be 18.72125 x 1.25 = 23 (rounding down). Using the MM's LA, you'd think an erinyes should have an ECL of 16; this underestimates its power by 7 full levels. Which means the character you describe here is more like a 45th level character than a 40th level character. (He doesn't have the equipment for a 47th level character, so I'll drop him a few levels). A half-fiend pixie has an ECL of 18 + class levels, however, provided that at least 20 HD are added. A lot more than the +8 that you get using the MM's numbers (+4 for being a pixie, +4 for being a half-fiend). This method doesn't help much if the base creature is a fire giant; it indicates a fire giant should be ECL 20, versus ECL 19 according to the MM. No big difference. But I'm thinking that the reason why many monstrous creatures appear unbalanced is not so much because the buff items are undercosted, but because some of the LAs are undercosted. Plus DevCrit might be broken. Which is not to say that we are pricing equipment too cheaply- that may very well be the case. But more evidence is needed. [/QUOTE]

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