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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7837773" data-attributes="member: 6750235">I had one DM who considered the dice absolute and wouldn't fudge rolls.  We would bring 3 or 4 characters prerolled just trying to get to level 2.  I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people who never played with a cleric that got 1 cure light wounds starting at 2nd level these days.  Forbid you ever memorize sticks-to-snakes once and end up losing your thief to an animal attack.  (Paul, if you are on these forums I did apologize. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />)IMX, healing potions were a lot more common in treasure, and the nearby churches were happy to accept our donations in town.  If we weren't in town and wanted to get back to town and were low on healing and hp then getting there sometimes also meant rolling up new characters.Being low on hit points also wasn't hard when the hit dice were all lower, the ability scores were lower, and the bonuses for the ability scores were lower.  Or editions where non-fighters were capped in max CON bonus.  BECMI fighters had d8 hp and were lucky to have a bonus at all to hp.  Good luck on anyone else.  The official rule was to roll 1st level hp too.  Kids have it easy these days.  I slayed goblins uphill both ways through snow and magical snow.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I like 5e concentration mechanics.  It creates decision points and restricts stacking abuse.  A party full of casters can still stack different concentration spells on someone.  It prevents a single caster doing it so it's not a solo show anymore but multiple effects can still be stacked.The middle ground is an active wilderness area in which the group is adventuring as opposed to journeying through.  A lot of wilderness adventures are no different that dungeon treks except there is more time between the encounter areas.Or multiple locations in the same area.  Or city based that also sees a short amount of time between encounters.Where an 8 hour rest exists.  4 or more short rests exist.  There are middlegrounds between raiding a heavily defended complex and travelling though the wilderness.I count whatever is in the builds and scenarios, including what might be shared damage like AoO's bards trigger with dissonant whispers.  Damage is part of it and wizards have a hell of a lot more damage options than bards.  Damage isn't what I see as a strong point for either class.  Buffs, debuffs, status effects, direct battlefield manipulation.  Both classes are good a that but the wizard offers more options at any given time plus can cast a few more times after a short rest plus tradition benefits improve spells for wizards.  Add defensive options into combat because no one does anything if they drop.  Wizards have better defensive options.Bards can get stretched thin trying to cover too much.  I often spend magical secrets on bard spells instead of from other classes.  Especially at 10th level when several 5th-level healing spells come online.  Unless the character is giving up healing or going lore other spell lists are more like a 14th level pipe dream.  On a lore bard I pick up a more efficient healing spell too.  Covering healing takes a good sized chunk out of the spells known.  That prevents going to heavily into other spells.  The other secret on a 6th level lore bard is either a cantrip for an at-will damage option or a utility spell on what's still a limited spells known list at that time or a defensive spell.  That's a tough choice:  Suck at damage, suck at healing, suck at defense, suck at more utility -- pick 2 to suck at.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Bards are a good class but some aspects of them are way over-rated.  They deceptively look like they are better at more things than they are because while they have a lot of options might take they can only take so many, and so many at a time in the end.  They actually suffer the same issues as 3.5 where they could do a lot but not as well as "insert other class here", but the toys look a bit cooler and gap isn't quite as big so no one notices.  ;-)Now compared to my first cleric, the bard with worthy of praise and worship beyond measure.  Compared to any other spell caster in 5e they have their pluses and minuses</blockquote>

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