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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7838983" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Again a point of confusion, given the statement about assuming standard array - how does a variant human get 18 cha using std array with healer feat? I mean yeah its possible at 4th, the last level in tier one, but anyone could have 18 at that point. Or is this a case of assume array (max 16 or 17 after race) for the wizard but some other method for scores for the Warlock so he gets a higher score threshold at levels 1-3 too?But I think a key point might be the linking of good at combat to not having Agonizing. Combat is not defined as, or rather your value st combat in a team, by your damage output individually. Like I said, in the games I play, at-will Silent Image yields a lot more impact that the +3 bonus to one hit a turn at tier-1. Sure, that can change a bit later once EB gets to three attacks hitting likely twice for a +8 or +10 a turn but by then you are into that area thst by assumption keeps getting dismissed because not enough of your games you want to consider last that long. Our table are very different, with seemingly different rules and definitely different assumptions.So I agsin come back to agreeing that at your tables, with your assumptions, you are able to create better, or whatever adjective of superiority you prefer, warlocks than you can wizards at some tiers or maybe just at cherry picked levels. Based on what you have said, I see no reason to doubt that you dont get as much out of your wizard builds as your warlocks under those conditions.</blockquote>

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