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Message: <blockquote data-quote="5ekyu" data-source="post: 7840530" data-attributes="member: 6919838">Sigh... again because it seems you missed it - the first arguement that was put forth was Warlock slotting unseen gave it an edge up because the wizard would only ritual it. My counter was if it was seen as beneficial, the wizard could do it. The second argument was that put by ou that wizards wouldn't because they had no reason to do so. I showed two - time and concentration. If you want to argue that to you you dont value time and concentration enough to spend that prep slot normally or cannot imagine every wanting to - thats fine. That's a different argument than saying there is no reason to. But, for your "give me a spell list" - why? Because it would be pointless. The spells for the wizard can change daily and based on the type of scene expected. Also, of course, I dont have a std spellbook, because the characters that choose that spell roster and the other PCs involved and the play in the game as we go thru levels inform the spellbook choices. The spells from one campaign to another change when you look at what else the party has and needs, etc. Course, none of those get factored into white rooms. But they do fsctor in vital to my spellbook choices. This kind of "in a vacuum" sizing is being paraded as if its analysis but its really just to me an internet pissing contest. Its treating the play online like it's an MMO dps role build optimization that to me steps far far away from the actual play in an rpg. That said, I cannot recall ever not taking Unseen servant as one of my initial six. If I had to choose a core list at first -6 - it tends to include Magic Missile, Unseen Servant, Silent Image and Fog Cloud. You may notice they have no material comps or trivial ones. Find Familiar is one i sometimes leave until second to see (assume new GM) how the GM manages components. If they make getting "exotic" and "costly" material hard to find then Familiar is a much more dubious choice. Had a game once run thru to 4th level where the character who had the spell was never able to find the familiar spell components The remaining two pages have a lot of competition to be sure. But, even if I choose those four at first (highly likely) the other two will be influenced by the "who is this charsacter" and what is my knowledge of the GM and campaign setting. Then daily which four get chosen for prep at 1st will vary a bit but it depends on so much it has no std. In my experience, in actual play, when using the 5e rules without a lot of csmpaign tweaks to cantrip counts and bolt damages and familiar reliability etc etc etc - wizards perform well - not second fiddle to warlocks although not necessarily at the same things. Warlocks are fine, imo, I have run effective ones too.</blockquote>

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