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<blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7840623" data-attributes="member: 6750235"><p>This is the kind of thing I was expecting. </p><p></p><p>The rituals I had were unseen servant, find familiar, and speak with animals. You example matches that, and adds identify and detect magic. Identify and detect magic aren't necessary for magic items using the default rules for that in the DMG. They make it faster and have additional niche uses. Zard had comprehend languages, unseen servant, and find familiar. The wizard rituals are better but not by enough to warrant declaring them better, imo.</p><p></p><p>One of the disagreements was that I stated even though a wizard can prep the ritual and cast it using a slot he's not going to. Your example followed my argument.</p><p></p><p>My cantrips were prestidigitation, light, guidance, resistance, friends. Everyone took light. I didn't bother with a damage cantrip on what's largely a flavor build. Zard had 3 damage cantrips, one of which was also shocking grasp and likely for the same reason. 5ekyu and I both ignored eldritch blast and I went with the crossbow. The tome warlock always wins in cantrips because they can obviously take the same 3 cantrips the wizard can plus 2 more. That was a point for the warlock builds.</p><p></p><p>Your diviner uses shield and my warlock was using armor of agathys. I think shield is better because the AC beats hit points whether it's in the form of temp hit points or hit point recovery via healing. I've given wizards the point here in the warlock and bard discussions. The wizard spell list has a lot of options for defense. Fey presence can be used for defense because of the charmed condition.</p><p></p><p>My warlock example uses misty visions. Misty visions at will beats silent image via spell slots very easily. That's the solid point I've been giving warlocks. </p><p></p><p>I opted for AoE damage. I took unseen servant, witch bolt, armor of agathys, and shatter. I was using witch bolt incorrectly at levels 3 and 4, and swapping it at 5th level. Knowing my error I would just stick with sleep (I was fey). I mentioned rope trick and levitate, and that versatility was a point I was giving to wizards. At those levels slots are still a restriction where misty visions is doing a lot for the warlock, which was my point much earlier when I said wizards still have versatility and it's the SLA's beating out spell slots at low levels before pacing considerations on spell slots.</p><p></p><p>My race was half-elf and had more skill proficiencies. I wasn't counting that as a point because it's not coming from the class. I was weighing CHA as more prominent in ability checks for the social pillar and a point for warlocks. The spells you selected aren't working the social pillar while guidance helps regardless.</p><p></p><p>Your build isn't built for damage. Mine had damage as an option but it was meant to use skills, those rituals, and cantrips primarily and damage situationally. Your build isn't focused on the social pillar but it can use portent to help with that in a pinch. Mine has friends, fey presence, guidance, and CHA vs INT.</p><p></p><p>It's late and I risk rambling. Overall I think my warlock has the advantage more often at those levels.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ashrym, post: 7840623, member: 6750235"] This is the kind of thing I was expecting. The rituals I had were unseen servant, find familiar, and speak with animals. You example matches that, and adds identify and detect magic. Identify and detect magic aren't necessary for magic items using the default rules for that in the DMG. They make it faster and have additional niche uses. Zard had comprehend languages, unseen servant, and find familiar. The wizard rituals are better but not by enough to warrant declaring them better, imo. One of the disagreements was that I stated even though a wizard can prep the ritual and cast it using a slot he's not going to. Your example followed my argument. My cantrips were prestidigitation, light, guidance, resistance, friends. Everyone took light. I didn't bother with a damage cantrip on what's largely a flavor build. Zard had 3 damage cantrips, one of which was also shocking grasp and likely for the same reason. 5ekyu and I both ignored eldritch blast and I went with the crossbow. The tome warlock always wins in cantrips because they can obviously take the same 3 cantrips the wizard can plus 2 more. That was a point for the warlock builds. Your diviner uses shield and my warlock was using armor of agathys. I think shield is better because the AC beats hit points whether it's in the form of temp hit points or hit point recovery via healing. I've given wizards the point here in the warlock and bard discussions. The wizard spell list has a lot of options for defense. Fey presence can be used for defense because of the charmed condition. My warlock example uses misty visions. Misty visions at will beats silent image via spell slots very easily. That's the solid point I've been giving warlocks. I opted for AoE damage. I took unseen servant, witch bolt, armor of agathys, and shatter. I was using witch bolt incorrectly at levels 3 and 4, and swapping it at 5th level. Knowing my error I would just stick with sleep (I was fey). I mentioned rope trick and levitate, and that versatility was a point I was giving to wizards. At those levels slots are still a restriction where misty visions is doing a lot for the warlock, which was my point much earlier when I said wizards still have versatility and it's the SLA's beating out spell slots at low levels before pacing considerations on spell slots. My race was half-elf and had more skill proficiencies. I wasn't counting that as a point because it's not coming from the class. I was weighing CHA as more prominent in ability checks for the social pillar and a point for warlocks. The spells you selected aren't working the social pillar while guidance helps regardless. Your build isn't built for damage. Mine had damage as an option but it was meant to use skills, those rituals, and cantrips primarily and damage situationally. Your build isn't focused on the social pillar but it can use portent to help with that in a pinch. Mine has friends, fey presence, guidance, and CHA vs INT. It's late and I risk rambling. Overall I think my warlock has the advantage more often at those levels. [/QUOTE]
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