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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CWD" data-source="post: 222546" data-attributes="member: 665">I don't think we're saying that Charisma doesn't have an effect.  I think we're saying it doesn't have ENOUGH of an effect.  Strength affects attack and damage rolls and encumbrance, Dexterity affects AC and Reflex saves, Wisdom affects Will saves, Intelligence affects skill points, and Charisma affects?If you look at that list Wisdom also seems underpowered, but there are a lot of skills, including the vital Listen and Spot, that are based on Wisdom.  A lot of GMs don't even USE Charisma skills because they want to reward good roleplaying.Yes, ability scores are partially dependent on class - so many (paladin, cleric, bard, sorcerer) classes will want a good Charisma score.   But for the remaining classes (fighter, rogue, druid, barbarian, ranger, wizard) its still a dump stat.</blockquote>