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<blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 8447383" data-attributes="member: 6775477">I do this with any spell cast, not just disadvantageous ones. Casting a spell in front of someone who doesn't know magic is going to be considered suspicious, and noble/royal personages are going to have guards watching carefully. I allow Dex/Deception to perform it subtly to give them a chance of success, even if it's not very good. Failing this check will almost certainly trigger initiative, just like drawing a weapon, while success allows the spell to trigger without starting a combat. I also find the &quot;automatically knows it was magically influenced&quot; to be problematic. Instead, when the effect ends the target makes an Int/Arcana DC: 10+spell level (use DC if non-spell ability). If successful, the target realizes it as normal, but otherwise they mentally justify their actions. If someone points out they were manipulated, they then become aware of the manipulate, even if they failed the check in the first place.Suggestion kinda needs this to be effective outside of combat (although it's amazing in combat). Something to be aware of though, is that the &quot;official rulings&quot; aren't actual rules; they're just the rulings by JC and others. I regularly ignore JC, who I feel is an idiot.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shiroiken, post: 8447383, member: 6775477"] I do this with any spell cast, not just disadvantageous ones. Casting a spell in front of someone who doesn't know magic is going to be considered suspicious, and noble/royal personages are going to have guards watching carefully. I allow Dex/Deception to perform it subtly to give them a chance of success, even if it's not very good. Failing this check will almost certainly trigger initiative, just like drawing a weapon, while success allows the spell to trigger without starting a combat. I also find the "automatically knows it was magically influenced" to be problematic. Instead, when the effect ends the target makes an Int/Arcana DC: 10+spell level (use DC if non-spell ability). If successful, the target realizes it as normal, but otherwise they mentally justify their actions. If someone points out they were manipulated, they then become aware of the manipulate, even if they failed the check in the first place. Suggestion kinda needs this to be effective outside of combat (although it's amazing in combat). Something to be aware of though, is that the "official rulings" aren't actual rules; they're just the rulings by JC and others. I regularly ignore JC, who I feel is an idiot. [/QUOTE]

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