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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 9064417" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>His partisanship in his book's presentation makes his intentions very clear. You might not want to acknowledge that, of course, but he's not at all trying to hide his take on things.</p><p></p><p>Riggs. Also, I'll note that I'm openly stating that this is my opinion, and that I'm not writing a book that purports to present itself as factual.</p><p></p><p>"As much"? No. There's blame to go around, that's for certain, but to say it can all be distributed equitably is not the case. Gary was, almost from the beginning, in a cold war to try and set the direction for TSR. He absolutely made mistakes, and there were issues with his leadership, but at the end of the day it was never all on him. Williams, however, had total control, and still wasn't able to last any longer than the Gygax/Blume leadership had been.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, the idea that "TSR was dead" in 1985 is a bit of a mischaracterization. The company absolutely had more debts than assets, but Gary's plan for turning the ship around was to try and release more content (which is why we got the hastily-released <em>Unearthed Arcana</em> and <em>Oriental Adventures</em> that same year). Whether or not that would have worked is unclear; it's likewise a counterfactual to speculate as to whether or not someone else would have stepped in and purchased the company, but it's not unthinkable; Williams herself thought that TSR and D&D were still financially viable, and given the game's fame at the time it's not hard to see someone else thinking the same, so we shouldn't pretend it was either Williams or TSR and D&D vanishing into history.</p><p></p><p>The reading isn't selective; as I've said, I'm of the opinion that putting forward the idea that the positive somehow make up for the negatives isn't one that I agree with, as it makes excuses for a bad work environment. "Toxic" is absolutely the right word, in my opinion, for a boss whose employees describe by using words like "afraid of" and "yelled, a lot." The evidence that she was a good person who did good things isn't being ignored; it's being found as not an excuse.</p><p></p><p>Saying that "Gygax did it too!" doesn't mean that Williams is any less culpable for how she acted, so I'm honestly not sure why you keep bringing that up.</p><p></p><p>The issue isn't that Riggs touched on Gygax's time in California lightly. It's that he makes a mockery of the idea that "distance = being out of touch" with regards to Gary's relationship to TSR headquarters, and then affirms it with regards to TSR West's relationship to TSR headquarters. He isn't consistent, and taken together with things like his repeatedly referring to Gary as "Saint Gary," it gives reason to look askance at things that he personally assures the readers of. Partisanship erodes trust.</p><p></p><p>I feel like there's a bit of hair-splitting going on in your assertion that he definitely could have afforded to purchase those shares. Even if we grant that proposal, there's a difference between what someone could afford and what's a reasonable price. I can afford a lot of things if I, for instance, sell my house to finance the purchase. That's by no means something that's reasonable.</p><p></p><p>But really, the entire issue with Gary's missed opportunity to buy the Blumes out is something of a digression, largely with regards to the issue of characterizing Williams as having "stolen" the company. Opinions will vary with regard to her having cut a deal with the Blumes to buy the company from them after Gary was the one who brought her on board in the first place. That doesn't change how the working environment under her leadership has been described.</p><p></p><p>I'm glad we can agree that she definitely ran the company into the ground, establishing that in that regard she was (at the very least) no better than the people she bought the company from.</p><p></p><p>Since you previously characterized Gary's tenure as an "abject failure," and now are equating Williams' tenure to his, does that mean you'd also describe her as an "abject failure" as well?</p><p></p><p>And really, this is where I think we disagree. While I agree that Gygax's successes have been deservedly lauded, I don't think there's ever been any lack of detractors pointing out his mistakes, flaws, and failings; if you read <em>Playing at the World</em>, you'll notice that even as early as 1975, one year after D&D came out, hobbyists and fans were already giving him grief for his take on things...oftentimes deservedly so. Whether or not his successes outshine his failures is up to each individual to determine for themselves.</p><p></p><p>Much of this can also be said of Williams, of course. I've personally noted <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/5-fun-facts-about-the-1991-d-d-black-boxed-set.685296/" target="_blank">on these forums</a> that she was the impetus for the product that got me into D&D. She's absolutely, as I said before, not a caricature. But she too has a <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/mike-breault-on-lorraine-williams.661642/" target="_blank">lot of stories</a> that paint her in a bad light ("I did not witness this but was told it independently by two higher-ups whom I trusted. Lorraine once got pissed at something done by the head of the book department at TSR. She called the dept head into a meeting of all the execs, called her a "stupid, useless cow," and fired her on the spot."), and in my opinion the negatives outweigh the positives. YMMV.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 9064417, member: 8461"] His partisanship in his book's presentation makes his intentions very clear. You might not want to acknowledge that, of course, but he's not at all trying to hide his take on things. Riggs. Also, I'll note that I'm openly stating that this is my opinion, and that I'm not writing a book that purports to present itself as factual. "As much"? No. There's blame to go around, that's for certain, but to say it can all be distributed equitably is not the case. Gary was, almost from the beginning, in a cold war to try and set the direction for TSR. He absolutely made mistakes, and there were issues with his leadership, but at the end of the day it was never all on him. Williams, however, had total control, and still wasn't able to last any longer than the Gygax/Blume leadership had been. Likewise, the idea that "TSR was dead" in 1985 is a bit of a mischaracterization. The company absolutely had more debts than assets, but Gary's plan for turning the ship around was to try and release more content (which is why we got the hastily-released [I]Unearthed Arcana[/I] and [I]Oriental Adventures[/I] that same year). Whether or not that would have worked is unclear; it's likewise a counterfactual to speculate as to whether or not someone else would have stepped in and purchased the company, but it's not unthinkable; Williams herself thought that TSR and D&D were still financially viable, and given the game's fame at the time it's not hard to see someone else thinking the same, so we shouldn't pretend it was either Williams or TSR and D&D vanishing into history. The reading isn't selective; as I've said, I'm of the opinion that putting forward the idea that the positive somehow make up for the negatives isn't one that I agree with, as it makes excuses for a bad work environment. "Toxic" is absolutely the right word, in my opinion, for a boss whose employees describe by using words like "afraid of" and "yelled, a lot." The evidence that she was a good person who did good things isn't being ignored; it's being found as not an excuse. Saying that "Gygax did it too!" doesn't mean that Williams is any less culpable for how she acted, so I'm honestly not sure why you keep bringing that up. The issue isn't that Riggs touched on Gygax's time in California lightly. It's that he makes a mockery of the idea that "distance = being out of touch" with regards to Gary's relationship to TSR headquarters, and then affirms it with regards to TSR West's relationship to TSR headquarters. He isn't consistent, and taken together with things like his repeatedly referring to Gary as "Saint Gary," it gives reason to look askance at things that he personally assures the readers of. Partisanship erodes trust. I feel like there's a bit of hair-splitting going on in your assertion that he definitely could have afforded to purchase those shares. Even if we grant that proposal, there's a difference between what someone could afford and what's a reasonable price. I can afford a lot of things if I, for instance, sell my house to finance the purchase. That's by no means something that's reasonable. But really, the entire issue with Gary's missed opportunity to buy the Blumes out is something of a digression, largely with regards to the issue of characterizing Williams as having "stolen" the company. Opinions will vary with regard to her having cut a deal with the Blumes to buy the company from them after Gary was the one who brought her on board in the first place. That doesn't change how the working environment under her leadership has been described. I'm glad we can agree that she definitely ran the company into the ground, establishing that in that regard she was (at the very least) no better than the people she bought the company from. Since you previously characterized Gary's tenure as an "abject failure," and now are equating Williams' tenure to his, does that mean you'd also describe her as an "abject failure" as well? And really, this is where I think we disagree. While I agree that Gygax's successes have been deservedly lauded, I don't think there's ever been any lack of detractors pointing out his mistakes, flaws, and failings; if you read [I]Playing at the World[/I], you'll notice that even as early as 1975, one year after D&D came out, hobbyists and fans were already giving him grief for his take on things...oftentimes deservedly so. Whether or not his successes outshine his failures is up to each individual to determine for themselves. Much of this can also be said of Williams, of course. I've personally noted [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/5-fun-facts-about-the-1991-d-d-black-boxed-set.685296/']on these forums[/URL] that she was the impetus for the product that got me into D&D. She's absolutely, as I said before, not a caricature. But she too has a [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/mike-breault-on-lorraine-williams.661642/']lot of stories[/URL] that paint her in a bad light ("I did not witness this but was told it independently by two higher-ups whom I trusted. Lorraine once got pissed at something done by the head of the book department at TSR. She called the dept head into a meeting of all the execs, called her a "stupid, useless cow," and fired her on the spot."), and in my opinion the negatives outweigh the positives. YMMV. [/QUOTE]
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