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<blockquote data-quote="Kwalish Kid" data-source="post: 3979273" data-attributes="member: 446">That is a good working definition of cheating.I want to say again that Fine and I both distinguish between cheating and DM fiat. Players can feel cheated if a DM goes against the rules to save their bacon, but the DM is usually encouraged by the game rulebooks to modify outcomes when necessary.And by the way, I agree that Fine's book is a bit dated. The internet alone has changed the way RPGs are played. Still, I have seen a lot of player cheating in my twenty-five years of gaming (Yikes! Call the grognard wagon!) some of it I cared about, some I didn't. Some cheating is very subtle and some is pretty gross. In most cases I've seen (and this is definitely not a good sample), it has tended to be in circumstances of desperation. Action points, and other mechanics, give a constructive avenue for this desperation. I think this is a good thing, whether or not this desperation would lead to cheating for any given player.(Cheating is definitely not so nice, though. Heck I knew two brothers who practiced passing their hands over dice so that they could flip them to another side without anyone noticing. I think it worked best with d6s, but they were big Champions players. When they played AD&amp;D (1st Ed), they always had good stats.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kwalish Kid, post: 3979273, member: 446"] That is a good working definition of cheating. I want to say again that Fine and I both distinguish between cheating and DM fiat. Players can feel cheated if a DM goes against the rules to save their bacon, but the DM is usually encouraged by the game rulebooks to modify outcomes when necessary. And by the way, I agree that Fine's book is a bit dated. The internet alone has changed the way RPGs are played. Still, I have seen a lot of player cheating in my twenty-five years of gaming (Yikes! Call the grognard wagon!) some of it I cared about, some I didn't. Some cheating is very subtle and some is pretty gross. In most cases I've seen (and this is definitely not a good sample), it has tended to be in circumstances of desperation. Action points, and other mechanics, give a constructive avenue for this desperation. I think this is a good thing, whether or not this desperation would lead to cheating for any given player. (Cheating is definitely not so nice, though. Heck I knew two brothers who practiced passing their hands over dice so that they could flip them to another side without anyone noticing. I think it worked best with d6s, but they were big Champions players. When they played AD&D (1st Ed), they always had good stats.) [/QUOTE]

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