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<blockquote data-quote="tzor" data-source="post: 2815695" data-attributes="member: 12826">I think it depends on the reason for the cheating.&nbsp; One type is the person who wants to &quot;win&quot; all the time.&nbsp; The purpose of role playing is not to &quot;win&quot; but to &quot;have fun.&quot;&nbsp; People who are obsessed with winning (and conversely GMs who are obsessed with players not winning) probably should not be playing role playing games because when push comes to shove the GM can always throw something at the players well above the capability of the player's characters.The other type is the person who thinks you need the big effects to have &quot;fun.&quot;&nbsp; Consider D&amp;D for example.&nbsp; Sure you can at some levels throw around bolts of lightning, create explosions of fire, bolts of acid, and so forth, but at first level the wizard might get one magic missle and can only use it once in the course of the day.&nbsp; The fighter might hit the well armored opponent, assuming the fighter is lucky.&nbsp; These players might &quot;fudge&quot; a dice because not hitting all the time might not be considered &quot;fun&quot; in their eyes.&nbsp; (I know back some 20+ years ago when I played 1st edition, I was sorely tempted to cheat on character creation ... I could not roll an 18 to save my life ... never mind you needed certain minimums for certain classes like the Paladin.)I think the latter can be addressed easier than the former.&nbsp; If the player is having enough fun then they won't be tempted to cheat or fudge.&nbsp; Using a fudge system can also allow teh borderline player a change to do the &quot;fun&quot; thing when their dice roll would result in definite unfun.&nbsp; Hero points, for example is a classic &quot;fudge&quot; system.Remember, the most important thing is to have fun.&nbsp; That's the GM's responsibility.&nbsp; I would argue that fudging or cheating often really isn't as fun, so it's more of a question of does it bother people but does it detract from the fun?&nbsp; Even the potential fun of the cheater.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tzor, post: 2815695, member: 12826"] I think it depends on the reason for the cheating. One type is the person who wants to "win" all the time. The purpose of role playing is not to "win" but to "have fun." People who are obsessed with winning (and conversely GMs who are obsessed with players not winning) probably should not be playing role playing games because when push comes to shove the GM can always throw something at the players well above the capability of the player's characters. The other type is the person who thinks you need the big effects to have "fun." Consider D&D for example. Sure you can at some levels throw around bolts of lightning, create explosions of fire, bolts of acid, and so forth, but at first level the wizard might get one magic missle and can only use it once in the course of the day. The fighter might hit the well armored opponent, assuming the fighter is lucky. These players might "fudge" a dice because not hitting all the time might not be considered "fun" in their eyes. (I know back some 20+ years ago when I played 1st edition, I was sorely tempted to cheat on character creation ... I could not roll an 18 to save my life ... never mind you needed certain minimums for certain classes like the Paladin.) I think the latter can be addressed easier than the former. If the player is having enough fun then they won't be tempted to cheat or fudge. Using a fudge system can also allow teh borderline player a change to do the "fun" thing when their dice roll would result in definite unfun. Hero points, for example is a classic "fudge" system. Remember, the most important thing is to have fun. That's the GM's responsibility. I would argue that fudging or cheating often really isn't as fun, so it's more of a question of does it bother people but does it detract from the fun? Even the potential fun of the cheater. [/QUOTE]

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