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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jim Hague" data-source="post: 2815838" data-attributes="member: 17550">Which is good - the use of APs/HPs/whatever changes the social contract to allow for what you term 'minor fudging', which seems to be increased authorial control by the players, as opposed to cheating, which is a violation of social contract by one or more persons for reasons that will vary.See above.  And since it's germaine to the topic at hand, I'll briefly touch on Don's problem in the prior thread:A player in Don's group cheats - she always makes skill rolls, attack checks, etc., dealing maximum or near-maximum damage.  The result of this is a growing acrimony in the group, but a passive-aggressive stance in dealing with the problem, since no one seems willing to approach either the player or GM; the cheating player is the GM's girlfirend.  The problem is compounded further by the player's cheating affecting the campaign directly - fights are too easy, leading to frustration by the GM and an overabundance of experience points (and power bloat because of it)...not a good situation.I submit that what you're poll and thread title are about and what you're saying you want to discuss are two different things - 'minor fudging' seems to be defined as increased authorial control by a player, either in a system supporting it through some metagame resource or the player violating the social contract by lying about die rolls or metagaming.  Outright cheating is another matter entirely - a deliberate violation of the social contract that includes (but isn't limited to) lying about die rolls, 'forgetting' to mark off hit points or spells and similar ethical failings by the player.And I'm afraid your stance is hoist by its own petard - friendship (as with any relationship) is based on trust, and one or more people violating that trust by lying on some level is an explicit violation of that trust.  While some will argue that it's not as serious as kicking puppies or other similarly dastardly deeds, I submit that it's far more insidious and damaging, ultimately, because it is a violation of trust...and that path leads to some very, very unpleasant circumstances down the road.   I find it difficult to believe that you're personally advocating lying to friends, so perhaps you should clarify your position further to avoid confusion or misunderstanding.</blockquote>

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