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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 2815889" data-attributes="member: 14140">Since you are getting hung up on lying to friends, maybe that can serve to show the differences in a way to get across the issue.practically everyone i ever met lies to their friends. most of these would be called "little white lies" and sometimes even "lies of omission" but they are lies and frankly, most social norms are not based on total vrutal honesty. Thats a nice theory, the never lie to friends,  often expressed when kids are looking for philosophical black/white worlds, but whether it comes down to politeness or courtesy or any number of decent reasons to not be totally truthful with people you like at all times, it happens.If you want to equate "lies" with "cheating" in some sense, the impression I got was he was aksing about "little white cheating" not "bald face benefit me to hurt you" cheating.Now, above someone mentions how cheating is bad when it is done to steal or hog the limelight. Well, i would suggest that someone stealing or hogging the limelight is just as bad when its done legally. Its not "how you stole the limelight" but that you did. Certainly cheating can be used to accomplish goals that are detrimental to the game play for everyone, but legal means can do the same. Whether its stealing the limelight, undermining the other players actions, or whatever other "messes with other players" goals... its not the how but the what that is the problem. if the problem occurs, deal with the problem, not the "how".Some people for instance might feel differently about a player fudging his own dice rolls if the roll was to stabilize another PC at the last minute (preventing the other's PC death) rather than it being done to slam the dragon at the last minute.not everyone of course.As I have said before, IMo fudging dice can be considered rules-lite action points. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" /></blockquote>

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