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Cheating - who cares?
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<blockquote data-quote="Frozen DM" data-source="post: 2818237" data-attributes="member: 35841"><p>Well I agree here, in neither case would I consider kicking a player out at first offence (or even after multiple offences). As much as cheating in the game annoys me, I can tolerate it to a limit for the sake of friendship. In fact, it has almost become a running joke in our own game because of how prevalent it became at one time. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I definitely agree here. I've seen more games ruined through unlucky die rolls than a single player fudging rolls on occasion. It's one reason I introduced action dice into my own D&D game. Of course, the fact that our group's "accused cheater" never makes us of them still baffles me. Even given a chance to modify rolls through a legal mechanic, and he still chooses to fudge. I just don't understand why.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I do agree that leaving it all up to the dice can result in a bad experience from time to time, that's one reason I adopted action dice in the first place. I can recognize the need to limit the randomness, but still, cheating occurs. I just think that if you agree to play a game, you should play by the rules. Now if the DM establishes a rule that says "Occasional dice fudging is acceptable as long as it enhances the game" well then, that's no longer cheating is it?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>LOL true, too much of anything can be a bad thing. I just think there is a difference between working within a set of rules, that ALL players agree to abide by, and one player going out of their way to disregard those rules for their own benefit. And as much as you can argue that there are players that will cheat only for the group's benefit as a whole, I'd be willing to bet that they are in the vast minority. </p><p></p><p></p><p>True</p><p></p><p>I think like all group activities, each individual must make allowances for the others in the group. One player should never dominate to the exclusion of others, nor should the enjoyment of one person take precendence. I think the main difference between cheating and other behaviours is that cheating inevitably is about one player. Their enjoyment or their goals. </p><p></p><p>To use another example from my own gaming: Our group was in the middle of a terrible battle with an undead ogre and his necromancer master. The group was being slaughtered, and the end result was almost a TPK. With one exception. The player who fudges die rolls managed to escape. His argument as to why he cheated? Someone had to escape in order to go back to town and recruit new adventurers. In his mind, he was cheating in order to keep the campaign from collapsing. So he justified it by saying he was cheating to benefit the group, so the story could continue and we could keep playing.</p><p></p><p>Really though, none of us bought that line. We all knew the truth. He wanted to have the only survivor, he wanted to be able to tell the story of how he was the only survivor of a TPK. He didn't cheat for the group, we had accepted the inevitability of the TPK, he cheated for selfish reasons, but he could justify it by saying it was for the group. That was the last session we played in that campaign because everyone was so upset at what he had done. Do we tolerate it? yes, he's still our friend. But do we care? most definitely.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Frozen DM, post: 2818237, member: 35841"] Well I agree here, in neither case would I consider kicking a player out at first offence (or even after multiple offences). As much as cheating in the game annoys me, I can tolerate it to a limit for the sake of friendship. In fact, it has almost become a running joke in our own game because of how prevalent it became at one time. I definitely agree here. I've seen more games ruined through unlucky die rolls than a single player fudging rolls on occasion. It's one reason I introduced action dice into my own D&D game. Of course, the fact that our group's "accused cheater" never makes us of them still baffles me. Even given a chance to modify rolls through a legal mechanic, and he still chooses to fudge. I just don't understand why. Again, I do agree that leaving it all up to the dice can result in a bad experience from time to time, that's one reason I adopted action dice in the first place. I can recognize the need to limit the randomness, but still, cheating occurs. I just think that if you agree to play a game, you should play by the rules. Now if the DM establishes a rule that says "Occasional dice fudging is acceptable as long as it enhances the game" well then, that's no longer cheating is it? LOL true, too much of anything can be a bad thing. I just think there is a difference between working within a set of rules, that ALL players agree to abide by, and one player going out of their way to disregard those rules for their own benefit. And as much as you can argue that there are players that will cheat only for the group's benefit as a whole, I'd be willing to bet that they are in the vast minority. True I think like all group activities, each individual must make allowances for the others in the group. One player should never dominate to the exclusion of others, nor should the enjoyment of one person take precendence. I think the main difference between cheating and other behaviours is that cheating inevitably is about one player. Their enjoyment or their goals. To use another example from my own gaming: Our group was in the middle of a terrible battle with an undead ogre and his necromancer master. The group was being slaughtered, and the end result was almost a TPK. With one exception. The player who fudges die rolls managed to escape. His argument as to why he cheated? Someone had to escape in order to go back to town and recruit new adventurers. In his mind, he was cheating in order to keep the campaign from collapsing. So he justified it by saying he was cheating to benefit the group, so the story could continue and we could keep playing. Really though, none of us bought that line. We all knew the truth. He wanted to have the only survivor, he wanted to be able to tell the story of how he was the only survivor of a TPK. He didn't cheat for the group, we had accepted the inevitability of the TPK, he cheated for selfish reasons, but he could justify it by saying it was for the group. That was the last session we played in that campaign because everyone was so upset at what he had done. Do we tolerate it? yes, he's still our friend. But do we care? most definitely. [/QUOTE]
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