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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 9559708" data-attributes="member: 326">DC 24 CHA save Banish is broken when the character might very well have a +0 or +1 to that save. You never blow your most powerful abilities/spells until you need to.These are the fights you save them for. Epic Tier casters have two 6th and 7th and one 8th and 9th level spell, that's plenty.Backwards thinking. Against a CR 24 monster you will use "most powerful abilities" because the odds are that will be the most powerful monster you battle that day - that's what the most powerful abilities are for.Adventuring day is some 'meta' nonsense I've never heard at the table. The players are there to win the encounter, but they'll know to save their best until the "Boss" makes an appearance.You are missing the obvious. This is a CR 24 monster. It represents ON ITS OWN a Highly Difficult encounter for:5 x L17 PCs4 x L18 PCs4 x L19 PCs (in its lair)3 x L20 PCs (in its lair)CR 24 (and higher) is the definition of a Solo monster (for the epic tier). A solo monster that represents a "Highly Difficult" challenge for an epic tier Party needs to be able to drop one per round to stand a fighting chance.I'd probably say a CR 20 monster should be able to drop one Level 12-13 PC per round, I'd probably say a CR 16 monster should be able to drop a Level 6-7 PC per round.CR 24 should be able to bring an epic tier PC to 0 hp in one turn. CR 28-30 should be able to drop almost two epic tier PCs every round. Broken rules should be fixed first, then you address the design issues to make encounters more fun.I already posted a vastly superior (IMHO) design for a CR 24 dragon.Again I disagree. Its basic math.The XP budget for the Dragon allows for 3 Level 20 PCs in its lair. If the dragon can casually remove one of those PCs from the battle with virtually no chance of saving (without prep) then the XP Budget is WAAAAY off.The 'Tank' of the group is there to take the hits the others can't and keep fighting. You need to play more Epic Tier.Epic Tier PCs laughed at the 2014 Monster Manual monsters and on the basis of this preview (Broken Banish aside) they will be laughing at these Monsters as well.No, I am saying:1. If you can auto-remove one character (likely before they can even act) the XP Budget is wonky.2. The 'Tank' of the group (in a classic spread of classes) is there to take the hits the others cannot - by removing that character* you disproportionately reduce the overall party Hit Points AND take away the character with the best AC as well.*Which we now realise with the Fighter they cannot because of the 2024 Indomitable change.</blockquote>

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