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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9561011" data-attributes="member: 6801228">There is a difference between "this is hard" and "we are essentially dead the moment initiative is rolled". I just don't understand why that is so hard for people to grasp. One sided stomps are not fun. And while people keep responding to that with "well, the players have many options to..." if you have been following my discussion with Upper_Krust, all of those things? That makes the attacks "worthless" or "ineffective" and therefore mean the monsters attacks should be STRONGER. If you go back a few pages he posted his "ideal" CR 30 monster. It does 210 damage in a single strike. If I'm reading their partial statblock correctly, you should expect an AVERAGE damage of 390 damage plus a stun plus swallowing on its turn, and even more damage from legendary actions. To get that into some perspective the STRONGEST fighter without accounting for magical gear has an average hp of 304. That is with a 20 con, Tough and the Epic Boon of Tough. You could throw 50 temp hp on them as well, and on average with that design they are STILL dropped from more than full health to zero hp in a single round of attacks with no legendary actions. And if it hit anyone WEAKER than that, then it can likely drop 2 to 3 of them in a single round of combat. Maybe if you had a party optimized to the gills with specific magical gear to stand a chance... but 90% of parties playing the game don't do that. Most people are not optimizers. So we should not treat the core monsters as though they need to slaughter a level 20 party in two turns to be a "proper" threat. No one ever said that the old Tarrasque didn't deal enough damage to be a threat, its only repeated issue was its inability to respond to ranged attacks or dex saves. Because dropping a single PC to 50% of their health in a single turn is still dramatic, while actually giving the party time to DO SOMETHING, instead of being shredded.</blockquote>

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