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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 9561438" data-attributes="member: 5889">To me here's an easy example:Imagine a 17th level wizard with a 14 con has 98 hp. Now you might argue would a wizard always have 14 con, but I would argue that I am not included the myriad of ways this wizard might have buffed up their HP total (Aid, Heroes feast, temp hp from so many options you take your pick, etc).Even at 98 hp, it takes the dragon 4 attacks to bring the wizard to 0.  And note that if assume a simple AC 19 for the wizard, aka mage armor + shield + 12 dex, nothing crazy at these levels...but with a simple AC 19, the dragon only gets all 4 attacks to hit 65% of the time, more likely than not but certainly no guarrantee. Also, if the wizard does have fire resistance on, it actually takes 5 attacks on average. And then, it takes 2 more attacks while he's unconscious to kill him. And that's before I've looked at invulnerability or resistance to BPS or death ward or contingency, etc. and of course then he's one decent heal spell from being completely back in the fight.So one of the physically weakest members of the party can stand up to a creature 7 CRs higher than its level, and face tank its entire attack regiment, plus a few LAs before the real risk of dying. And this isn't just any high CR monster, dragons are supposed to represent one of the physically strongest creatures in existence.So yeah....the damage does seem low to me.</blockquote>