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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9561750" data-attributes="member: 6801228">A strawman is when you argue against a point that was not made, so you can knock it down and claim victory. I never made any claim about Adventurers becoming impotent. I never made any claim either way about the fight being the culmination of the adventuring day. If you would address the actual point I WAS making, I would be willing to continue this line of the discussion.26 is between 25 and 30, so I don't understand why you think saying 25-30 disproves my 26. Also, 30 is the high end, even of your own argument. So again, not seeing why 25 to 30 disproves my point. And finally, you are pulling a slight of hand. An AC of 30 vs a +19 to hit still means you get hit at least half the time. Temp hp and resistance to damage does not affect the chance of you being hit. Neither does healing. So you have basically conceded the point that the fighter with an AC of 30, which is the top-end of your expected ACs you keep listing, is going to get hit, likely a lot. Whether or not you can heal that damage has nothing to do with my point, which was purely about "will you get hit most of the time". Which is yes.First of all, we now know that is not neccessarily true, do to the playtest linked previously. Secondly, the answer to the action economy is not required to be damage. It is not having it be a solo fight. Which has been the consistent advice on all boss battles for at least a decade. Thirdly, it doesn't have to have good odds of solo TPKing the party from max resources for it to be a good fight. That is an unreasonable standard"Won't make a dent" he says as he decides to cast some of the most powerful healing spells in the game to counteract the damage.Then you haven't paid much attention to optimization.But they still do not function as solo monsters. That is why giving bosses minions and lieutenants in the fight is the CONSTANT advice given.Resistance to fire damage drops the 87 damage to 75. That might not kill a wizard on average... but if you roll better than average it still will. Resisting 12 damage (total) is not making the wizard unkillable by this dragon. And not operating on the front line is pretty meaningless against a creature with an 80 ft fly speed and 15 ft reachAnd you know what the strangest thing is? I keep giving numbers. Average damage, average hp, potential ACs and the chance to hit. You keep saying "you don't understand how strong these characters are". With.... nothing to change my mind. Just the insistence that I cannot possible have any idea what I am talking about, because I disagree with you.No, that isn't what I was saying. But good job making a second strawman, little sloppier than the first though</blockquote>

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