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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6405366" data-attributes="member: 4937">This is pretty much exactly my experience with offering both point buy and random - which I did for about the first three sessions the summer I was running open dungeon crawls for all&nbsp; comers at the local gaming store.&nbsp;&nbsp; Randomly generated characters that came in above the point buy were keepers.&nbsp; Randomly generated characters below the point buy were sacrifices or one shots.&nbsp; No one ever said, &quot;Yippee, I got interesting unexpected results that are much less than what I could have gotten from point buy!&quot;&nbsp; In fact, I'll go so far as to say, no one ever says that.&nbsp; I now run 32 point buy standard.&nbsp; That proves to be about the level where players feel like they are getting what they want, and opens up a wide range of possible stat arrays - from 18, 18, 8, 8, 8, 8 to 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 10 and everything in between.&nbsp;&nbsp; If a player really wanted to have a 6 or 7 or even a 4 or 5 and they had a good reason, I'd let them buy down to that as well.&nbsp; There is no result that you could get from 4d6 keep the best three that you couldn't get from 32 point buy, except for very bad and very good results.&nbsp;&nbsp; So, if a player said, &quot;I like not knowing what I'm going to get.&quot;, I see no reason why they should not roll 4d6 keep the best 3 and then build that character with point buy, boosting their best stat with the left over points or buying slightly less in their best stat in the event of great luck.&nbsp;&nbsp; In most cases, it's practically the same outcome, just one stat shifted up or down a bit to make the outcome actually fair.&nbsp;&nbsp; But I never see anyone actually do that.&nbsp; As I said, the attraction here is the thrill of gambling on the above average outcome.&nbsp;&nbsp; About 5-6 times in 40 rolls, you'd get 35 or even 40 point buy with 4d6 take three.&nbsp;&nbsp; They'll keep rolling until they get that.&nbsp;&nbsp; They'll never go, &quot;Oh look, I got a 9 point buy character!&nbsp; Yippee!&quot;, and stop there.As I said, those people who claim that they like randomness, have very short term memories regarding all the stats they manage to discard.&nbsp; But they are very proud of being hardcore.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6405366, member: 4937"] This is pretty much exactly my experience with offering both point buy and random - which I did for about the first three sessions the summer I was running open dungeon crawls for all comers at the local gaming store. Randomly generated characters that came in above the point buy were keepers. Randomly generated characters below the point buy were sacrifices or one shots. No one ever said, "Yippee, I got interesting unexpected results that are much less than what I could have gotten from point buy!" In fact, I'll go so far as to say, no one ever says that. I now run 32 point buy standard. That proves to be about the level where players feel like they are getting what they want, and opens up a wide range of possible stat arrays - from 18, 18, 8, 8, 8, 8 to 14, 14, 14, 14, 14, 10 and everything in between. If a player really wanted to have a 6 or 7 or even a 4 or 5 and they had a good reason, I'd let them buy down to that as well. There is no result that you could get from 4d6 keep the best three that you couldn't get from 32 point buy, except for very bad and very good results. So, if a player said, "I like not knowing what I'm going to get.", I see no reason why they should not roll 4d6 keep the best 3 and then build that character with point buy, boosting their best stat with the left over points or buying slightly less in their best stat in the event of great luck. In most cases, it's practically the same outcome, just one stat shifted up or down a bit to make the outcome actually fair. But I never see anyone actually do that. As I said, the attraction here is the thrill of gambling on the above average outcome. About 5-6 times in 40 rolls, you'd get 35 or even 40 point buy with 4d6 take three. They'll keep rolling until they get that. They'll never go, "Oh look, I got a 9 point buy character! Yippee!", and stop there. As I said, those people who claim that they like randomness, have very short term memories regarding all the stats they manage to discard. But they are very proud of being hardcore. [/QUOTE]

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