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<blockquote data-quote="prosfilaes" data-source="post: 6405585" data-attributes="member: 40166">You said &quot;This is why many people who use 4d6 drop the lowest, do two sets. They&nbsp; want characters that have a certain level of competence but they do not&nbsp; desire that character creation be fully predictable or controllable.&nbsp; Basically they want some surprises but would nothing too game breaking.&quot; Using the stats rolled up by JamesonCourage, judging by Celebrim's 32 point standard, 6 are above 32 points, 2 are at 32 points, and only 2 pairs are both below 32 points. That's not a certain level of competence; that is reliably superpowered and potentially game breaking.If I were convinced that everyone understood that, I'd be a lot more fine with this, but I get the impression that few really do understand how ridiculously powerful 4d6 drop lowest, two sets, really is. Pointing to that guy who got stuck with the 21 point buy doesn't really solve the problem that half the players have above 32 point attributes.(I don't know what point buy system Celebrim used to get those numbers, but under Pathfinder's system, the examples of 32 point buy translated to 25 Pathfinder point buy, plus or minus one or two points. 25 points is listed as &quot;epic fantasy&quot; and is the highest amount of points mentioned by the Core Rulebook.)Whenever anyone proposes something that is hugely advantageous for themselves, even if you can somehow eliminate the idea they deliberately chose that for their advantage, one must seriously ponder the idea that they like it because it is advantageous, even if they don't consciously realize it. Even if he's completely honest, the roommate who is selling you on the idea that Domino's pizza is optimal in price and nutrition and thus should be had for dinner every night probably really loves pizza; if they hadn't, certain factors would have been reweighed until they came out in favor of foods the roommate liked.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="prosfilaes, post: 6405585, member: 40166"] You said "This is why many people who use 4d6 drop the lowest, do two sets. They want characters that have a certain level of competence but they do not desire that character creation be fully predictable or controllable. Basically they want some surprises but would nothing too game breaking." Using the stats rolled up by JamesonCourage, judging by Celebrim's 32 point standard, 6 are above 32 points, 2 are at 32 points, and only 2 pairs are both below 32 points. That's not a certain level of competence; that is reliably superpowered and potentially game breaking. If I were convinced that everyone understood that, I'd be a lot more fine with this, but I get the impression that few really do understand how ridiculously powerful 4d6 drop lowest, two sets, really is. Pointing to that guy who got stuck with the 21 point buy doesn't really solve the problem that half the players have above 32 point attributes. (I don't know what point buy system Celebrim used to get those numbers, but under Pathfinder's system, the examples of 32 point buy translated to 25 Pathfinder point buy, plus or minus one or two points. 25 points is listed as "epic fantasy" and is the highest amount of points mentioned by the Core Rulebook.) Whenever anyone proposes something that is hugely advantageous for themselves, even if you can somehow eliminate the idea they deliberately chose that for their advantage, one must seriously ponder the idea that they like it because it is advantageous, even if they don't consciously realize it. Even if he's completely honest, the roommate who is selling you on the idea that Domino's pizza is optimal in price and nutrition and thus should be had for dinner every night probably really loves pizza; if they hadn't, certain factors would have been reweighed until they came out in favor of foods the roommate liked. [/QUOTE]

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