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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 6408052" data-attributes="member: 85555">And even if we were to call it less random, that doesn't make it not random. Point Buys are not random. One could formulate an argument that certain methods of 4d6 drop the lowest with measures in place to ensure a certain range are &quot;less random&quot; than a d20 roll but they are still random. People can still enjoy the randomness, even if they don't want a d100 roll with no modifiers (which they may find too unpredictable or too broad). It is a false choice. We are told you either like random in its purest form or you must like point buy. There is no in between. I am sorry but there are endless shades in between and I think it is bit insulting for folks to suggests those of us who like 3d6, 4d6 or even 5d6, secretly want to bust the system, and are lying when we say we like the randomness. Now obviously one can drill down into what a person means by the statement &quot;like the randomness&quot;. But rather than say &quot;LIAR!&quot; maybe just ask, &quot;what do you mean by that?&quot; For some it may have to do with the excitement. For others it may have to do with the surprising shape their character takes as they roll. For others it might be the hope of rolling high against the possibility of rolling low. For others it might be it seems the most fair (I know a lot of people on the other side don't accept this but many of us feel random stats to help block optimization). Could be any combo. The aim here isn't for any side to win but for people to find the best system for use at the table. If you genuinely believe point buy is the way to go, and people here would be happier using it, I can assure you that accusing them of either idiocy or deception won't persuade anyone.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 6408052, member: 85555"] And even if we were to call it less random, that doesn't make it not random. Point Buys are not random. One could formulate an argument that certain methods of 4d6 drop the lowest with measures in place to ensure a certain range are "less random" than a d20 roll but they are still random. People can still enjoy the randomness, even if they don't want a d100 roll with no modifiers (which they may find too unpredictable or too broad). It is a false choice. We are told you either like random in its purest form or you must like point buy. There is no in between. I am sorry but there are endless shades in between and I think it is bit insulting for folks to suggests those of us who like 3d6, 4d6 or even 5d6, secretly want to bust the system, and are lying when we say we like the randomness. Now obviously one can drill down into what a person means by the statement "like the randomness". But rather than say "LIAR!" maybe just ask, "what do you mean by that?" For some it may have to do with the excitement. For others it may have to do with the surprising shape their character takes as they roll. For others it might be the hope of rolling high against the possibility of rolling low. For others it might be it seems the most fair (I know a lot of people on the other side don't accept this but many of us feel random stats to help block optimization). Could be any combo. The aim here isn't for any side to win but for people to find the best system for use at the table. If you genuinely believe point buy is the way to go, and people here would be happier using it, I can assure you that accusing them of either idiocy or deception won't persuade anyone. [/QUOTE]

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