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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 6412969">This is why story is a somewhat tricky term when it comes to RPGs and why I thin we need to be cautious. Here is the thing about this case, most sandbox players are not there for the story. They will acknowledge that a story can be described after the fact, but I find the folks are into sandbox are very much against things like mechanics that give players control of the "narrative", devices that give players plot immunity, or obvious efforts by the GM to "tell a story". This is a crowd who want to feel like they are inhabiting a character in a world that feels real. If you talk to these people you don't see words like "story" or "narrative" but rather "exploration" or "setting" or "events". So I think Janx's point stands here. Story may be said to emerge or exist in some way in an RPG depending on how one defines it, but that doesn't mean that is the most important aspect of the game to people. And this is especially true if one's definition of story starts getting into territory that sandbox players explicitly reject. Now I understand that story can simply mean "there is a dragon ravaging a village, what do you do?". And most people would agree that sort of thing is a feature of sandbox. But that is different from saying people who play sandbox are there for the story. Most would say they are there to play a character. If your focus is on character rather than on story itself that does lead to a whole different set of expectations and conventions around play. So while I don't think the term "story" is bad on its own, and while I can say "story" to mean 'stuff that happens in game', once we start talking about why people are there to play in the first place, we need to listen to what they say, not impose "story" upon them as the ultimate aim of the game. And again most sandbox players I meet either are adamant they are not there for story, or they see story as this emergent thing that develops out of the actual goal which is to play a character and explore a world.Story does have connotations in gaming beyond "there is a dragon ravaging the village". It suggests to some folks things like adventure paths, railroading, story RPGs, narrative mechanics, etc. Those are generally the things people are referring to when they say there is no story in their sandbox. And there are definitely folks out there who leap from RPGs include "There is a Dragon ravaging the village" to "your game should tell a good story". That is exactly what Wick does in his article and it is why people get a bit edgy around that term sometimes (even though it has multiple other meanings and some of them apply to pretty much any RPG).</blockquote>

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