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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 6413474" data-attributes="member: 3192">That's easy. Poker is a game and entirely part of math. Some people play poker only as a mathematical betting game, never bluffing. And deck draws are mathematically random because the deck is predetermined. It's the players that aren't going to be limited to math because they change too quickly. But players should not be confused with the game. Games are separate from people.No, they don't. There is no game board a referee generated behind a screen that must be altered based on your relayed intended manipulation. Which makes the GM a player and no longer capable of running an RPG.Luck is only part of game play when it is a probability and therefore can be gamed. Players are gaming when they game the game. Game the system that is the game. They make decisions which may lead to sequential numeric probabilities, the results of which are determined with actual dice rolls, random number generators. (no conflict ever occurs).  If players play well and the game system involves play within it as performing a social role the player must actually perform, then they are role playing and game playing all at once. They are playing a role playing game. What you've said doesn't really get into the game design underpinning common warrior RPG designs, just common practices.Frankly. it's not even a game because there's no game system to be played. But it is group story making with some random elements thrown in as part of the practices to make those stories. Games are designed to test player physical and mental abilities. Sport games mainly test physical performance. All other games test mental abilities. And there is overlap. But without memory and strategy there isn't a mental game occurring. Stories don't occur in either instance and invention isn't especially required in either instance.Lets not playing language games. Playing a games doesn't require players to innovate. They must discern. D&D allows both, but it is unique that way. And incidentally role playing isn't a language game either.</blockquote>

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