Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6413558" data-attributes="member: 22779">[MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] - Dog is not a role play.&nbsp; Pretending to be a dog in a park catching a frisbee is role play.&nbsp; Doctor is not&nbsp; a role play.&nbsp; Pretending (or actually being I suppose) a doctor in a hospital dealing with patients is role play.&nbsp; It appears that you are confusing role with role play.&nbsp; The two are certainly not synonymous.So, I ask again, can you give me an example of role play that does not involve character, setting and plot?&nbsp; I honestly can't think of one.------On another note, there are three major issues I'm drawing here.1.&nbsp; Howandwhy's definitions would include Microsoft Flight Simulator as a role playing game.&nbsp; It's pure math and your job playing the game is to game the game to succeed.&nbsp; You have a role - a pilot, and a game.&nbsp; Ok, fine.&nbsp; But, this breaks down when the same definition then excludes any version of Dungeons and Dragons.&nbsp; That's a pretty hard row to hoe if you want to have a definition of role playing game that doesn't account for D&amp;D.&nbsp; 2.&nbsp; H&amp;W's history is severely lacking.&nbsp; He comments that the idea of playing a fictional persona was added in the 80's.&nbsp; This is flat out false.&nbsp; Anecdotes from Gygax's table disprove that, as well as the genesis of Dragonlance, which was played in the 70's before being published in the 80's.&nbsp; Role playing requiring or at least being enhanced by, taking on a fictional persona was part of the game from day one.&nbsp; Reread the accounts of the Braunstein games and you can see this.&nbsp; Never mind Blackmoor or other examples.&nbsp; Playing in pure Avatar Stance has been possible since day one, but, certainly not the only way to play.Heck, Gygax mentions the need to fudge die rolls in the 1e DMG.&nbsp; If results are not to the DM's liking, the DM is advised to over rule the rolls.&nbsp; That's not an impartial Referee as H&amp;W is characterising it.3.&nbsp; By making continuous connections between those that disagree with him and fascists and doublethink, any claim to academic standards goes straight out the window.&nbsp; He's essentially Godwinned himself by doing this and repeatedly characterising those that disagree with him as either uneducated, or guilty of ulterior motives instead of actually providing any substantial proof of his claims.&nbsp; &nbsp;[MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] - it's time to either piddle or get off the pot.&nbsp; Show me your proof.&nbsp; Give me examples of role play that does not require all the elements of a story.&nbsp; Games?&nbsp; Oh, hey, games don't need stories at all.&nbsp; There's certainly no narrative (small n, not the Forge term) involved or assumed in Tic Tac Toe or Poker or Chess or Monopoly.&nbsp; In fact, a narrative wouldn't make much sense in those cases other than a simple relating of the events that occurred during the game.&nbsp; There is no &quot;in game fiction&quot; to talk about.&nbsp; A role playing game will always (at least as far as I can think) have an in game fiction that is distinct from the actions of the players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6413558, member: 22779"] [MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] - Dog is not a role play. Pretending to be a dog in a park catching a frisbee is role play. Doctor is not a role play. Pretending (or actually being I suppose) a doctor in a hospital dealing with patients is role play. It appears that you are confusing role with role play. The two are certainly not synonymous. So, I ask again, can you give me an example of role play that does not involve character, setting and plot? I honestly can't think of one. ------ On another note, there are three major issues I'm drawing here. 1. Howandwhy's definitions would include Microsoft Flight Simulator as a role playing game. It's pure math and your job playing the game is to game the game to succeed. You have a role - a pilot, and a game. Ok, fine. But, this breaks down when the same definition then excludes any version of Dungeons and Dragons. That's a pretty hard row to hoe if you want to have a definition of role playing game that doesn't account for D&D. 2. H&W's history is severely lacking. He comments that the idea of playing a fictional persona was added in the 80's. This is flat out false. Anecdotes from Gygax's table disprove that, as well as the genesis of Dragonlance, which was played in the 70's before being published in the 80's. Role playing requiring or at least being enhanced by, taking on a fictional persona was part of the game from day one. Reread the accounts of the Braunstein games and you can see this. Never mind Blackmoor or other examples. Playing in pure Avatar Stance has been possible since day one, but, certainly not the only way to play. Heck, Gygax mentions the need to fudge die rolls in the 1e DMG. If results are not to the DM's liking, the DM is advised to over rule the rolls. That's not an impartial Referee as H&W is characterising it. 3. By making continuous connections between those that disagree with him and fascists and doublethink, any claim to academic standards goes straight out the window. He's essentially Godwinned himself by doing this and repeatedly characterising those that disagree with him as either uneducated, or guilty of ulterior motives instead of actually providing any substantial proof of his claims. [MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] - it's time to either piddle or get off the pot. Show me your proof. Give me examples of role play that does not require all the elements of a story. Games? Oh, hey, games don't need stories at all. There's certainly no narrative (small n, not the Forge term) involved or assumed in Tic Tac Toe or Poker or Chess or Monopoly. In fact, a narrative wouldn't make much sense in those cases other than a simple relating of the events that occurred during the game. There is no "in game fiction" to talk about. A role playing game will always (at least as far as I can think) have an in game fiction that is distinct from the actions of the players. [/QUOTE]

Verification