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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6414653" data-attributes="member: 87792">An RPG.  There are two definitions of Storygame I'm aware of - and Amber certainly doesn't fit the first and I don't think it fits the setting.1: A game that comes from a certain corner of the RPG community.2: A game from the RPG family (whichever side of the line it falls on) that has a predefined end point and you can't continue after that point because the setup no longer makes sense, and is not just a module for a larger game.So to expand on the second, My Life With Master has one of the PCs fighting it out with The Master as the signal for the endgame - and the mechanics lead inexorably to that fight.  Without the Master, any and all mechanics that are specifically about the relationship with the master no longer make sense.  The characters survive - but unless they immediately find a new master you need a different ruleset.  Fiasco is a five act structure on a highway to hell.  But after the epilogue the rules no longer make any sense at all - and this is built into a game.  Montsegur 1244 and Grey Ranks are similar - in another RPG they might be modules - but the game has been entirely written round that module.I don't believe Amber has any such defined end point other than that it's PVP.  So it doesn't fit type 2.With you on your conclusion.  But Hillfolk is definitely an RPG.Yup (if we use RPG as shorthand for Tabletop Role-Playing Game)."a game in which the players are rewarded for making choices that are consistent with the character’s motivations or further the plot of the story."Arkham Horror is neither and RPG nor a Story-game.  It gives the characters two simple motivations (stop the Elder God, stay alive) and rewards for that.  And someone playing a Fishmalk is regrettably rewarded despite not having consistent motivations.How about "A game where you are expected to make moves outside the direct scope of the game's mechanics, and where your moves are informed by intangibles like your character's motivations"?You're in that case taking out a range of games I consider RPGs.  Like Montsegur 1244.  The argument here would appear to be that they are roleplaying but not roleplaying Games?And you've just included a wide range of tabletop wargames where you are playing the general and the fiction is important.But you can add b without making it an RPG.  Fog of War rules for one.I'm going to say that what's critical is the corollary to A.  That you can use the logic of the fiction to take actions the writers of the rules have not considered.  And it's stepping round the rules that is credited with the invention of the RPG.</blockquote>

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