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<blockquote data-quote="Bedrockgames" data-source="post: 6418570" data-attributes="member: 85555">Sure but this is the nature of designing for a niche hobby. Concrete data is not widely available and we have to base much of what we do on things like 1) direct customer feedback, 2) what we see and expect at our own table, 3) what we see online and what we see at other tables, 4) sales, and 5) what little data is out there. Unless a designer has the pocket book of WOTC, in depth market research is unlikely. And when people do conduct in depth market research they usually keep the useful information to themselves (at least in gaming). So on the one hand, yes this is all anecdotal based on peoples experience, but on the other hand there isn't much more than that to truly go on. I keep seeing you talk about having categorizations and analytical tools. Those sound great but to make useful tools you need real data and I don't think many of the models people have proposed have enough of that. And I don't think us constructing a definition of RPG here in this forum based on the arguments you, I or anyone else puts forward, is going to do us much good. So far all I have seen are definitions that narrow the hobby in a bad way. At worst I've seen definitions that try to sneak in one play style over others.&nbsp; think an honest definition simply describes what RPG means to people who play such games and identify as such players. The best way for us to do that is share our different experiences of what RPG means at the tables we play at.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bedrockgames, post: 6418570, member: 85555"] Sure but this is the nature of designing for a niche hobby. Concrete data is not widely available and we have to base much of what we do on things like 1) direct customer feedback, 2) what we see and expect at our own table, 3) what we see online and what we see at other tables, 4) sales, and 5) what little data is out there. Unless a designer has the pocket book of WOTC, in depth market research is unlikely. And when people do conduct in depth market research they usually keep the useful information to themselves (at least in gaming). So on the one hand, yes this is all anecdotal based on peoples experience, but on the other hand there isn't much more than that to truly go on. I keep seeing you talk about having categorizations and analytical tools. Those sound great but to make useful tools you need real data and I don't think many of the models people have proposed have enough of that. And I don't think us constructing a definition of RPG here in this forum based on the arguments you, I or anyone else puts forward, is going to do us much good. So far all I have seen are definitions that narrow the hobby in a bad way. At worst I've seen definitions that try to sneak in one play style over others. think an honest definition simply describes what RPG means to people who play such games and identify as such players. The best way for us to do that is share our different experiences of what RPG means at the tables we play at. [/QUOTE]

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