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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 1210835" data-attributes="member: 177">Hm.  Lots of stuff gone on before I noticed this thread.  Let's see...On the subject of heirarchy and Tolkien, I'll only add that the master-servant heirarchy is maintained through most of the books, but at the end even it is broken - before leaving for the West, Frodo mentions that Sam will likely be mayor.  The servant overcomes his low state in the heirarchy to eventually become top dog.  Hardly status-quo there.As to the original thesis:I think there's something to be said for the idea that Sci-fi and Fantasy are both the same genre, and different genres.  Not so much a matter of being wishy-washy as it is a matter of duality.The genres do have many similarities - fantastic events and abilities being foremost.  And, as the old saying goes, sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.  However, a genre is typically defined by the conventions it uses, and there the genres do have differences.  Some may claim they are not meaningful, but I'd have to go with a practical approach there.  The differences are strong enough to lead many people to read one of the genres, but not the other.  I cannot see how, to the reader, those differences can be said to be meaningless.  In the end, if the readers tend to think they are different genres, then they are different, whether Meiville likes it or not.Meiville contends that generally there's a correlation - those who tend to separate the genres are also those who pan fantasy.  Well, yes.  You cannot pan one of the genres without first separating them.  It's a logical necessity of the position.I think Meiville is revealing a strong bias, slant, or lack of perspective.  As often as I've seen folks say that fantasy is crap, I've seen other folks say that sci-fi is crap.  Even more common is that statement that any genre fiction is crap.  As was noted by another poster, 90% of everything is crap.  So, while some of what Meiville may be saying is true in some sense, I find it to be only half the story, and thus misleading.  It is true that being widely read outside of fiction will help an author.  However, to say that an author should avoid reading within their genre is to say that authors should deny what is taken as a basic truth by most other art forms - one of the best ways to be a great artist is to be a student of art.  Great painters are generally students of art history and the techniques of other painters.  Same for dance, sculpture, music, what have you.  Authors should somehow be different?</blockquote>

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