Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
China Mieville on Tolkien and Epic/High Fantasy
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Salthanas" data-source="post: 1213671" data-attributes="member: 9689"><p>I don't really think that this statement is fully applicable to Tolkien purely because his writing methods were quite radical compared to other authors (remember that the whole work of Middle earth is primarily linguistic in inspiration as he said many times). To start with Tolkien used to name his characters and places and then derive from that standpoint alone how the name defined the character. His writing therefore never followed the standard path of fleshing a character out for example, he actually tried to work out how something came to be or what is was like in a much more logical fashion. He after all regarded himself as more of a historian reporting what happened in Middle earth so when he wrote something it was not the case that he wrote it because thats how he wanted it to be, more that from his standpoint that was the only possible way it could be. Tolkien always regarded Middle Earth as something he had discovered not created himself.</p><p></p><p>Whilst its pretty much impossible for an author to not have a message in any work he writes, because after all that work is based on his on life experiences and will always therefore reflect his persective on the world the problem it seems with people like Melville is that they don't really understand just how fastidious Tolkien was with the above method. This is the same man after all who when asked by a by a farmer if she could name some of her bulls after the elves in Rivendell flatly told her that it was inappropriate and suggested a name like Mundo instead. Following that though he then had to sit down and work out why Mundo was a word related to bulls. Therefore while trying to say that Tolkien had no message is as such probably wrong however trying to draw extreme conclusions from the work is also equally inaccurate (which is what Melville has done). Indeed the fact that people seem to disagree so much about what Tolikens book means and what it supposedly says is probably an indication of some sort as to just how much freedom the reader is allowed to draw conclusions of his own rather than being forced in a particular direction by the author. </p><p></p><p>Anyway the whole idea that Tolkien was some sort of class snob is ridiculous. He even explicitly states in his letters that Sam Gamgee was based on the privates he met in the trenches, people who he says he regarded as being much superior to himself even though he was an officer. He must have been a very strange class snob if he regarded the supposed "lower class" as being superior to the "higher class". Personally I think that this view is illustrated by how Tolkien writes about Sam throughout the book. If Melville is trying to suggest that Tolkien is a class snob I'd think it more likely that his observation seems more one drawn by an agenda than by common sense , even though I'm sure that many people would be shocked that such a thing happens in the world of literary criticism <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Salthanas, post: 1213671, member: 9689"] I don't really think that this statement is fully applicable to Tolkien purely because his writing methods were quite radical compared to other authors (remember that the whole work of Middle earth is primarily linguistic in inspiration as he said many times). To start with Tolkien used to name his characters and places and then derive from that standpoint alone how the name defined the character. His writing therefore never followed the standard path of fleshing a character out for example, he actually tried to work out how something came to be or what is was like in a much more logical fashion. He after all regarded himself as more of a historian reporting what happened in Middle earth so when he wrote something it was not the case that he wrote it because thats how he wanted it to be, more that from his standpoint that was the only possible way it could be. Tolkien always regarded Middle Earth as something he had discovered not created himself. Whilst its pretty much impossible for an author to not have a message in any work he writes, because after all that work is based on his on life experiences and will always therefore reflect his persective on the world the problem it seems with people like Melville is that they don't really understand just how fastidious Tolkien was with the above method. This is the same man after all who when asked by a by a farmer if she could name some of her bulls after the elves in Rivendell flatly told her that it was inappropriate and suggested a name like Mundo instead. Following that though he then had to sit down and work out why Mundo was a word related to bulls. Therefore while trying to say that Tolkien had no message is as such probably wrong however trying to draw extreme conclusions from the work is also equally inaccurate (which is what Melville has done). Indeed the fact that people seem to disagree so much about what Tolikens book means and what it supposedly says is probably an indication of some sort as to just how much freedom the reader is allowed to draw conclusions of his own rather than being forced in a particular direction by the author. Anyway the whole idea that Tolkien was some sort of class snob is ridiculous. He even explicitly states in his letters that Sam Gamgee was based on the privates he met in the trenches, people who he says he regarded as being much superior to himself even though he was an officer. He must have been a very strange class snob if he regarded the supposed "lower class" as being superior to the "higher class". Personally I think that this view is illustrated by how Tolkien writes about Sam throughout the book. If Melville is trying to suggest that Tolkien is a class snob I'd think it more likely that his observation seems more one drawn by an agenda than by common sense , even though I'm sure that many people would be shocked that such a thing happens in the world of literary criticism ;) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
China Mieville on Tolkien and Epic/High Fantasy
Top