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<blockquote data-quote="Mannahnin" data-source="post: 8533687" data-attributes="member: 7026594">Ars Magica made the mundanes essential in part because The Gift of magic inherently spooked animals and most ordinary people, making the Magi scary and gut-level untrustworthy.&nbsp; Unless a Magus had the Gentle Gift virtue, Companions (non-magical specialists) were absolutely essential for a lot of social tasks.&nbsp; (And even if the Magus had that virtue, it'd cost points they could have been spending on magical skills to get good at social stuff).&nbsp; Of course, this would be hard to do in D&amp;D, which tries to cover lots of different settings, for many of which the idea that mages are inherently socially handicapped would contradict the existing background.All kinds of physical talents?&nbsp; Extraordinary athletic feats and deeds?&nbsp; The Salmon Leap of CuChulainn, for example?&nbsp; Or growing to giant size like Sir Kay in the Welsh version of the Arthur legends?Part of the trick here is figuring out what we're trying to simulate and what works with our sense of setting.&nbsp; Traditionally mythological heroes, NOT wizards, often had extraordinary magical powers.&nbsp; That's not just a thing from superhero comics.The Book of Nine Swords comes in for some ribbing, but it's chock-full of examples of special abilities and martial techniques which achieve supernatural or just extraordinary effects.&nbsp; There's a ton of content in there worth raiding.At the same time I agree with you that we do still want at least a class or two which are simple to play.Yep.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mannahnin, post: 8533687, member: 7026594"] Ars Magica made the mundanes essential in part because The Gift of magic inherently spooked animals and most ordinary people, making the Magi scary and gut-level untrustworthy. Unless a Magus had the Gentle Gift virtue, Companions (non-magical specialists) were absolutely essential for a lot of social tasks. (And even if the Magus had that virtue, it'd cost points they could have been spending on magical skills to get good at social stuff). Of course, this would be hard to do in D&D, which tries to cover lots of different settings, for many of which the idea that mages are inherently socially handicapped would contradict the existing background. All kinds of physical talents? Extraordinary athletic feats and deeds? The Salmon Leap of CuChulainn, for example? Or growing to giant size like Sir Kay in the Welsh version of the Arthur legends? Part of the trick here is figuring out what we're trying to simulate and what works with our sense of setting. Traditionally mythological heroes, NOT wizards, often had extraordinary magical powers. That's not just a thing from superhero comics. The Book of Nine Swords comes in for some ribbing, but it's chock-full of examples of special abilities and martial techniques which achieve supernatural or just extraordinary effects. There's a ton of content in there worth raiding. At the same time I agree with you that we do still want at least a class or two which are simple to play. Yep. [/QUOTE]

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