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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 8535798" data-attributes="member: 7024481">Well in my High games the martials and rogues have plenty of shenanigans they can play with high level items or just thier own intelligence.&nbsp; Had a rogue in one party drug the mage, tie him up and had his guild torture him for about a week because he was bad for business.&nbsp; then they let him go with a warning.&nbsp; He never knew his own party member helped.&nbsp; But he was much more worried about how his spells affected the cities he was in after that.&nbsp; &nbsp; And a mage casting some big spell is no different than a cleric doing it or a rogue killing the king, or the high cleric, or the fighter starting a war with the local thieves guild and completely derailing the party and DM's plans.&nbsp; If your powerful mages aren't afraid of&nbsp; kings, nobles and high level , Clerics, Paladins, and rogues your not a very good DM.&nbsp; &nbsp; no one can watch thier back every minute of every day.&nbsp; for those Dm's that only want to run dungeon crawls and don't let the campaign world impact things, find a different system, your never going to be happy with D&amp;D or pathfinder.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 8535798, member: 7024481"] Well in my High games the martials and rogues have plenty of shenanigans they can play with high level items or just thier own intelligence. Had a rogue in one party drug the mage, tie him up and had his guild torture him for about a week because he was bad for business. then they let him go with a warning. He never knew his own party member helped. But he was much more worried about how his spells affected the cities he was in after that. And a mage casting some big spell is no different than a cleric doing it or a rogue killing the king, or the high cleric, or the fighter starting a war with the local thieves guild and completely derailing the party and DM's plans. If your powerful mages aren't afraid of kings, nobles and high level , Clerics, Paladins, and rogues your not a very good DM. no one can watch thier back every minute of every day. for those Dm's that only want to run dungeon crawls and don't let the campaign world impact things, find a different system, your never going to be happy with D&D or pathfinder. [/QUOTE]

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