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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jaeger" data-source="post: 8540016" data-attributes="member: 27996">These two go together:Many people decided that they did not like the particular way 4e addressed the issue of LFQW.  Evidently 4e's designers wanted to do things a bit differently, but such is the way that cookie crumbled.Yes, there is a lot of untrue anti-4e nonsense out there.But 4e fans need to realize that there are also a whole lot of D&D players that legitimately just don't like the overall design direction of how 4e did things.It is what it is.These two go together as well:Since 3e WotC has gradually gotten rid of many of the checks that there used to be on casters power without really addressing the spell lists to compensate.Fewer spells at early levels. Fewer spells known overall.Learning spells was a roll. Spells found was GM/campaign fiat. Same with what spells were available to learn and when.TSR D&D had segment casting times, interruption during combat was more of a thing.And spell components were actually supposed to be a thing...All of that is gone.Yes Charm and sleep have kinda been nerfed... But that has more to do with players complaining abut those spells being used on them! Not with addressing LFQW.For all of its influences on popular media the one thing from D&D that has never made the translation was hardcore vancian magic. Players want to be spell slingers, not "one trick ponies". Over the past few editions WotC has catered to those desires. And it has created a situation where they will have a hard time addressing the real root of the problem: The Spell List.To really address LFQW - the Spell List needs to be gone over with a fine toothed comb and be redesigned from the ground up. Specifically taking into account that the checks previously imposed on magic users are not there anymore.This will not happen. Ever.Never ever?Never ever.Why? Because "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMMYYYYWWWIIZZAARRRDDDDHHAASSBBEENN NERFED!!!" "DEATH TO WOTC!!"WotC just doesn't want to hear it. The overwhelming majority of games never go past 10th level, and most other groups seem to just more or less make it work.It's seen as not worth the headache that they'd get from that part of the fanbase to fix what should have been addressed with 3e. Especially considering that in my opinion; some of the D&D devs are part of the fanbase that like magic users just how they are, thank you very much...</blockquote>

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